Page 1 of 1
John 2:23-25 ἐπίστευσαν / ἐπίστευεν
Posted: May 13th, 2016, 11:59 am
by Jonathan Robie
John 2 wrote:23 Ὡς δὲ ἦν ἐν τοῖς Ἱεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει· 24 αὐτὸς δὲ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἐπίστευεν αὑτὸν αὐτοῖς διὰ τὸ αὐτὸν γινώσκειν πάντας 25 καὶ ὅτι οὐ χρείαν εἶχεν ἵνα τις μαρτυρήσῃ περὶ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, αὐτὸς γὰρ ἐγίνωσκεν τί ἦν ἐν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ.
How would you interpret the force of the imperfect in ἐπίστευεν? In apposition to the aorist ἐπίστευσαν, I would expect the difference in tense to be significant.
Re: John 2:23-25 ἐπίστευσαν / ἐπίστευεν
Posted: May 13th, 2016, 12:28 pm
by Stephen Hughes
I think it's similar to the difference between "run a car" (for convenience) and "run into a car" (as in crash). The difference in aspect that is made clear in Greek is sort of understood from the English. There is a different degree of transitivity in those two constructions.
Re: John 2:23-25 ἐπίστευσαν / ἐπίστευεν
Posted: May 13th, 2016, 4:02 pm
by cwconrad
Jonathan Robie wrote:John 2 wrote:23 Ὡς δὲ ἦν ἐν τοῖς Ἱεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει· 24 αὐτὸς δὲ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἐπίστευεν αὑτὸν αὐτοῖς διὰ τὸ αὐτὸν γινώσκειν πάντας 25 καὶ ὅτι οὐ χρείαν εἶχεν ἵνα τις μαρτυρήσῃ περὶ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, αὐτὸς γὰρ ἐγίνωσκεν τί ἦν ἐν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ.
How would you interpret the force of the imperfect in ἐπίστευεν? In apposition to the aorist ἐπίστευσαν, I would expect the difference in tense to be significant.
I think the sense of πιστεύειν differs in the two instances: in verse 23 ἐπίστευσαν is intransitive, "came to believe", i.e. came to the state of belief; in verse 24 οὐκ
ἐπίστευεν αὑτὸν αὐτοῖς is "would not entrust himself to them" is transitive, reflexive, and habitual or continuing behavior.
Re: John 2:23-25 ἐπίστευσαν / ἐπίστευεν
Posted: May 14th, 2016, 8:42 pm
by Stephen Carlson
Jonathan Robie wrote:John 2 wrote:23 Ὡς δὲ ἦν ἐν τοῖς Ἱεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει· 24 αὐτὸς δὲ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἐπίστευεν αὑτὸν αὐτοῖς διὰ τὸ αὐτὸν γινώσκειν πάντας 25 καὶ ὅτι οὐ χρείαν εἶχεν ἵνα τις μαρτυρήσῃ περὶ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, αὐτὸς γὰρ ἐγίνωσκεν τί ἦν ἐν τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ.
How would you interpret the force of the imperfect in ἐπίστευεν? In apposition to the aorist ἐπίστευσαν, I would expect the difference in tense to be significant.
Well, "force" means a variety of things, but one of the things going on here is a difference in
discourse mode, specifically narrative/plot, which prefers perfectives, and description, which prefers imperfectives.
Re: John 2:23-25 ἐπίστευσαν / ἐπίστευεν
Posted: May 15th, 2016, 8:20 am
by Jonathan Robie
Stephen Carlson wrote:Well, "force" means a variety of things, but one of the things going on here is a difference in discourse mode, specifically narrative/plot, which prefers perfectives, and description, which prefers imperfectives.
That makes a lot of sense here, using the aorist to describe an event that happened, and using imperfectives to paint the scene.