ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

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living_manna
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ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by living_manna »

Why does ἐκ λύπης mean reluctantly or grudgingly according to most translations, instead of out of pain?

2 Corinthians 9:7
ἕκαστος καθὼς προῄρηται τῇ καρδίᾳ, μὴ ἐκ λύπης ἢ ἐξ ἀνάγκης; ἱλαρὸν γὰρ δότην ἀγαπᾷ ὁ Θεός.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by Jason Hare »

living_manna wrote: September 13th, 2022, 8:31 pm Why does ἐκ λύπης mean reluctantly or grudgingly according to most translations, instead of out of pain?

2 Corinthians 9:7
ἕκαστος καθὼς προῄρηται τῇ καρδίᾳ, μὴ ἐκ λύπης ἢ ἐξ ἀνάγκης; ἱλαρὸν γὰρ δότην ἀγαπᾷ ὁ Θεός.
One doesn’t conclude that it means something different because of how it is rendered in a translation. Here is λύπη in BDAG:
λύπη, ης, ἡ (s. λυπέω; Aeschyl., Hdt.+) pain of mind or spirit, grief, sorrow, affliction J 16:6; Hm 10, 1, 2; 10, 2, 1–6; 10, 3, 1; 3f; AcPl Ha 6, 16. περισσοτέρα λ. excessive sorrow 2 Cor 2:7. Opp. χαρά (X., Hell. 7, 1, 32; Eth. Epic. col. 3, 16; Philo, Abr. 151, Leg. ad Gai. 15; JosAs 9:1; ApcMos 39) J 16:20; Hb 12:11. λύπην ἔχειν have pain, be sorrowful (Dio Chrys. 46 [63], 1; ApcMos 3) in childbirth J 16:21; cp. vs. 22. λ. ἔχειν ἀπό τινος be pained by someone 2 Cor 2:3. λύπην ἐπὶ λύπην ἔχειν sorrow upon sorrow Phil 2:27; opp. πολυτέλεια λύπην μὴ ἔχουσα wealth without pain Hs 1:10. λ. μοί ἐστιν μεγάλη I am greatly pained Ro 9:2 (cp. Tobit 3:6; TestJud 23:1 πολλὴ λύπη μοί ἐστι.—λ. μεγάλη as Jon 4:1; TestJob 34:5; ApcMos 9). βαλεῖν τινα εἰς λύπην plunge someone into grief 1 Cl 46:9. τὸ μὴ πάλιν ἐν λ. πρὸς ὑμᾶς ἐλθεῖν not to come to you again in sorrow 2 Cor 2:1. τί … σεαυτῷ λύπην ἐπισπᾶσαι why are you bringing sorrow on yourself Hs 9, 2, 6. ἀποβαλεῖν πᾶσαν λ. lay aside all sorrow Hv 4, 3, 4; ἀποθέμενον τὸ τῆς λ. AcPl BMM recto 7 (for this AcPl Ha 8, 8: το]|[κατηφ]ὲ̣̣ ἀποθέμενον, as restored by Schmidt, but on this s. κατηφής). Also αἴρειν ἀφʼ ἑαυτοῦ τὴν λ. Hm 10, 1, 1 (opp. ἱλαρότης 10, 3, 1). ἐξέπτη ἡ λ. αὐτοῦ his anxiety (over the combat with beasts) took wings AcPl Ha 3, 17. συγκόπτεσθαι ἀπὸ τῆς λύπης be crushed with sorrow Hv 5:4. ἀπὸ τῆς λ. from sorrow Lk 22:45 (TestJos 8:5 συνείχετο ἀπὸ τῆς λύπης; ParJer 7:26 ἵνα μὴ διαφθαρῇ ἀπὸ τῆς λ.; cp. UPZ 18, 13 [163 B.C.] ἀποθνήσκει ὑπὸ τῆς λ.; Jos., Ant. 6, 337). ἐκ λύπης reluctantly 2 Cor 9:7 (cp. Soph., O.C. 1636f of Theseus’s generous acceptance, οὐκ οἴκτου μέτα, of Oedipus’s last mandate; cp. 1 Pt 4:9; on the grammar cp. ἐκ τῆς λύπης Aesop, Fab. 275 P.; JosAs 29:9). διὰ τὴν λ. in sorrow AcPl Ha 5, 24. ἡ κατὰ θεὸν λ. sorrow that God approves 2 Cor 7:10a (leading to μετάνοια as Plut., Mor. 961d). In contrast to this ἡ τοῦ κόσμου λύπη the sorrow of the world vs. 10b. λύπην ἐπάγειν τῷ πνεύματι bring grief to the spirit Hm 3:4. λύπη personified Hs 9, 15, 3.—Pl. (Demosth., Ep. 2, 25; Dio Chrys. 80 [30], 14; Gen 3:16f; 5:29; Pr 15:13; 31:6; PsSol 4:15; ParJer 7:36 διὰ τὰς λ.) αἱ πρότεραι λῦπαι the former sorrows Hv 3, 13, 2. ὑποφέρειν λύπας 1 Pt 2:19. παλαιοῦσθαι ταῖς λύπαις be aged by sorrows Hv 3, 11, 3.—B. 1118. BHHW III 2021ff. Schmidt, Syn. II 574–95; DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Spicq. Sv.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 604–605.
This is a mental pain, an anguish, that can certainly be translated with ἐκ as “from anguish,” or in the sense that doing something causes you stress and you don’t want to do it — so you do it reluctantly. I don’t find the translations problematic. They are expressing it in idiomatic English.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by living_manna »

Jason, thanks so much for pointing me to DBAG. (The reference to Aesop’s fable Ἀετὸς καὶ ἀλώπηξ containing ἐκ τῆς λύπης especially convinced me that ἐκ λύπης literally means pain or sorrow.) Yet it seems too much of an interpretation to say ‘reluctant,’ although a reasonable interpretation. I see now that ‘pain’ contrasts well with ἱλαρὸν ‘cheerful.’ I prefer:

2 Corinthians 9:7. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not painfully or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by Jason Hare »

living_manna wrote: September 15th, 2022, 1:51 am Jason, thanks so much for pointing me to DBAG. (The reference to Aesop’s fable Ἀετὸς καὶ ἀλώπηξ containing ἐκ τῆς λύπης especially convinced me that ἐκ λύπης literally means pain or sorrow.) Yet it seems too much of an interpretation to say ‘reluctant,’ although a reasonable interpretation. I see now that ‘pain’ contrasts well with ἱλαρὸν ‘cheerful.’ I prefer:

2 Corinthians 9:7. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not painfully or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Of course, you are free to prefer whatever you like. It is not good practice, though, to simply pull a definition that you like from within an entire lexical entry.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by Devenios Doulenios »

Why does ἐκ λύπης mean reluctantly or grudgingly according to most translations, instead of out of pain?

2 Corinthians 9:7
ἕκαστος καθὼς προῄρηται τῇ καρδίᾳ, μὴ ἐκ λύπης ἢ ἐξ ἀνάγκης; ἱλαρὸν γὰρ δότην ἀγαπᾷ ὁ Θεός.
When working with a Greek text, it is better to learn to understand the Greek as Greek first, on its own terms, rather than treat it as only understandable via translation. Koine is a real language that was spoken by real people. It is not a code to be solved. Translations and commentaries have their place, but one should consult them primarily after working to understand the Greek first yourself.

A key to doing this, besides learning the core vocabularies (for the NT as a whole, then for the book you are working in), is learning to see meaning from the context words are in. Words do not have meaning in isolation only. Their meanings also come from the contexts in which they are used. First, at the phrase or clause level, then the sentence, then the paragraph, then the chapter, then the book, then the corpus. If there are some words you don’t get in your passage, you may want to check a lexicon. That’s fine. But even before that, there is much you can learn by seeing the context.
In the case of 2 Cor. 9:7 and ἐκ λύπης, there are several clues from context to help you. The text again:

ἕκαστος καθὼς προῄρηται τῇ καρδίᾳ, μὴ ἐκ λύπης ἢ ἐξ ἀνάγκης; ἱλαρὸν γὰρ δότην ἀγαπᾷ ὁ Θεός.

First, there is τῇ καρδίᾳ, which points to this being an internal, mental or emotional pain, not a physical one. Then, immediately following ἐκ λύπης you have [μὴ] ἢ ἐξ ἀνάγκης, “or out of compulsion”. In effect, ἀνάγκης is being used as a synonym of λύπης. Then, the person who gives ἐκ λύπης is contrasted with ἱλαρὸν … δότην, “a cheerful giver”. All this points to not giving out of joy vs giving out of joy. “Reluctantly” or “grudgingly” certainly captures the idea.

And, don’t forget, as BDAG shows, to look at the wider usage in Koine, including the Septuagint, the Apostolic Fathers, other Koine authors outside of the Greek Bible (e.g., Aesop), and the classical authors. Remember also, words tend not to have one meaning that applies to all occurrences. Rather, they tend to have a range of meanings.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by living_manna »

Δεβένιος,
Thank you for your time. Before continuing, I have to say that this is a very minor difference and not at all critical for faith and morals, yet I do find it interesting. True, I see Greek as a code to be translated, yet in this thread including the BDAG lexical entry, I see no support for leaping from pain to reluctant or grudging, although it is a small leap. Pain is emotional and contrasts well with cheerful. I just prefer to be a literal as possible unless well warranted.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by Stephen Carlson »

living_manna wrote: September 15th, 2022, 4:41 pm True, I see Greek as a code to be translated, yet in this thread including the BDAG lexical entry, I see no support for leaping from pain to reluctant or grudging, although it is a small leap.
Well, the support for "reluctantly" is listed in the BDAG entry:
ἐκ λύπης reluctantly 2 Cor 9:7 (cp. Soph., O.C. 1636f of Theseus’s generous acceptance, οὐκ οἴκτου μέτα, of Oedipus’s last mandate; cp. 1 Pt 4:9; on the grammar cp. ἐκ τῆς λύπης Aesop, Fab. 275 P.; JosAs 29:9).
This support is a passage in Sophocles, and it would have to be checked before claiming there's no support.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by living_manna »

Yes, I checked Oedipus at Colonus and I found οὐκ οἴκτου μέτα and I see that οἶκτος is a synonym meaning pity; but I see no mention of λύπη, so I assumed it to be very weak support. Am I missing something?

Soph OC 1636-1637
ὁ δʼ, ὡς ἀνὴρ γενναῖος, οὐκ οἴκτου μέτα κατῄνεσεν τάδʼ ὅρκιος δράσειν ξένῳ.

From:
https://anastrophe.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin ... 0OC%201620

1620τοιαῦτʼ ἐπʼ ἀλλήλοισιν ἀμφικείμενοι
λύγδην ἔκλαιον πάντες. ὡς δὲ πρὸς τέλος
γόων ἀφίκοντʼ οὐδʼ ἔτʼ ὠρώρει βοή,
ἦν μὲν σιωπή· φθέγμα δʼ ἐξαίφνης τινὸς
θώϋξεν αὐτόν, ὥστε πάντας ὀρθίας
1625στῆσαι φόβῳ δείσαντας ἐξαίφνης τρίχας,
καλεῖ γὰρ αὐτὸν πολλὰ πολλαχῇ θεός·
ὦ οὗτος οὗτος, Οἰδίπους, τί μέλλομεν
χωρεῖν; πάλαι δὴ τἀπὸ σοῦ βραδύνεται.
ὁ δʼ ὡς ἐπῄσθετʼ ἐκ θεοῦ καλούμενος,
1630αὐδᾷ μολεῖν οἱ γῆς ἄνακτα Θησέα.
κἀπεὶ προσῆλθεν, εἶπεν· ὦ φίλον κάρα,
δός μοι χερὸς σῆς πίστιν ὁρκίαν τέκνοις,
ὑμεῖς τε, παῖδες, τῷδε· καὶ καταίνεσον
μήποτε προδώσειν τάσδʼ ἑκών, τελεῖν δʼ ὅσʼ ἂν
1635μέλλῃς φρονῶν εὖ ξυμφέροντʼ αὐταῖς ἀεί.
ὁ δʼ, ὡς ἀνὴρ γενναῖος, οὐκ οἴκτου μέτα
κατῄνεσεν τάδʼ ὅρκιος δράσειν ξένῳ.
ὅπως δὲ ταῦτʼ ἔδρασεν, εὐθὺς Οἰδίπους
ψαύσας ἀμαυραῖς χερσὶν ὧν παίδων λέγει·
1640ὦ παῖδε, τλάσας χρὴ τὸ γενναῖον φρενὶ
χωρεῖν τόπων ἐκ τῶνδε, μηδʼ ἃ μὴ θέμις
λεύσσειν δικαιοῦν μηδὲ φωνούντων κλύειν,
ἀλλʼ ἕρπεθʼ ὡς τάχιστα· πλὴν ὁ κύριος
Θησεὺς παρέστω μανθάνων τὰ δρώμενα.
1645τοσαῦτα φωνήσαντος εἰσηκούσαμεν
ξύμπαντες· ἀστακτὶ δὲ σὺν ταῖς παρθένοις
στένοντες ὡμαρτοῦμεν. ὡς δʼ ἀπήλθομεν,
χρόνῳ βραχεῖ στραφέντες ἐξαπείδομεν
τὸν ἄνδρα τὸν μὲν οὐδαμοῦ παρόντʼ ἔτι,
1650ἄνακτα δʼ αὐτὸν ὀμμάτων ἐπίσκιον
χεῖρʼ ἀντέχοντα κρατός, ὡς δεινοῦ τινος
φόβου φανέντος οὐδʼ ἀνασχετοῦ βλέπειν.
ἔπειτα μέντοι βαιὸν οὐδὲ σὺν χρόνῳ
ὁρῶμεν αὐτὸν γῆν τε προσκυνοῦνθʼ ἅμα
1655καὶ τὸν θεῶν Ὄλυμπον ἐν ταὐτῷ λόγῳ.
μόρῳ δʼ ὁποίῳ κεῖνος ὤλετʼ, οὐδʼ ἂν εἷς
θνητῶν φράσειε, πλὴν τὸ Θησέως κάρα.
οὐ γάρ τις αὐτὸν οὔτε πυρφόρος θεοῦ
κεραυνὸς ἐξέπραξεν οὔτε ποντία
1660θύελλα κινηθεῖσα τῷ τότʼ ἐν χρόνῳ,
ἀλλʼ ἤ τις ἐκ θεῶν πομπὸς ἢ τὸ νερτέρων
εὔνουν διαστὰν γῆς ἀλάμπετον βάθρον.
ἁνὴρ γὰρ οὐ στενακτὸς οὐδὲ σὺν νόσοις
ἀλγεινὸς ἐξεπέμπετʼ, ἀλλʼ εἴ τις βροτῶν
1665θαυμαστός. εἰ δὲ μὴ δοκῶ φρονῶν λέγειν,
οὐκ ἂν παρείμην οἷσι μὴ δοκῶ φρονεῖν.

Χορός

ποῦ δʼ αἵ τε παῖδες χοἰ προπέμψαντες φίλων;

Ἄγγελος

αἵδʼ οὐχ ἑκάς· γόων γὰρ οὐκ ἀσήμονες
φθόγγοι σφε σημαίνουσι δεῦρʼ ὁρμωμένας.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by Stephen Carlson »

Interesting. It might be worthing up for peer review then.
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Re: ἐκ λύπης 2 Corinthians 9:7

Post by living_manna »

I'll get started writing up this life changing article for peer review ASAP - just kidding.
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