On the word order of the Vorlage of "translation".
Posted: November 15th, 2016, 1:15 am
In the beginners' sub-forum composition was put up during a discussion of how to make a translation of it. I would like to address some comments about that composition to the (presently) unknown composer of the following sentence:
The κρινεῖ happens within the (temporal) context of the ἔρχεσθαι αὐτὸν so it would generally come after it (ἔρχεσθαι being a concrete action that occurs in a place and at a time). The πάλιν (a narrative word) is the (thematic) context within which the ἔρχεσθαι happens, so it would be written before it. The pronouns ἡμάς and αὐτόν function as the expected elements within their respective verbal phrases (not at the syntax level of the whole phrase), so they would nestle in with the verbs as you have written in your composition. If you interpret the English to mean that the judgement is a process (temporal context) or event (thematic context), over which ὁ κύριος will preside or be a particular part of, then you should compose with the ὁ κύριος after the core verbal unit, but if you are thinking that κρινεῖ ἡμὰς is is just one of the functions / duties that ὁ κύριος will carry out, the you could leave it in front (there is scope for variability in the placement of the elements based on wider concerns).
Basically, you need to compose your Greek according to some sort of Greek word order guidelines. English regularly puts the temporal phrase at the end of a sentence, but Greek is basically the opposite, because the time - the time of day or the event which is used to mark time - is the (temporal) context, ie the thing within which the other events of the sentence occur. By putting the temporal phrase after the ὁ κύριος κρινεῖ ἡμάς, you have made ὁ κύριος κρινεῖ ἡμὰς the (thematic) context, within which the time occurs, but the time (indicated by event) is constructed into a prepositional phrase - which type of phrase is generally a contextualising structure. In other words, you have composed this with a contextualising phrase in a (specific) event position.
Reading it as you have composed it is to make the second coming dependent on the need for judgement. Like saying conceptually that it was out of a need for judgement that the second coming was planned.
Greek word order is quite straightforward, and it has some basic principles that we can follow. I wish you all the best in your future compositions.
Using Jonathan's version with the diacritics, let me comment on both the inter and intra phrasal word orders of your composition.Jonathan Robie wrote:You're missing some accents here. I'm guessing it should be something like this:koine1 wrote: ὁ κυριος κρινει ἡμας ἐν τῳ ερχεσθαι αυτον παλιν
From what I can gather it is: The Lord will come again to Judge us
ὁ κύριος κρινεῖ ἡμὰς ἐν τῷ ἔρχεσθαι αὐτὸν πάλιν.
The κρινεῖ happens within the (temporal) context of the ἔρχεσθαι αὐτὸν so it would generally come after it (ἔρχεσθαι being a concrete action that occurs in a place and at a time). The πάλιν (a narrative word) is the (thematic) context within which the ἔρχεσθαι happens, so it would be written before it. The pronouns ἡμάς and αὐτόν function as the expected elements within their respective verbal phrases (not at the syntax level of the whole phrase), so they would nestle in with the verbs as you have written in your composition. If you interpret the English to mean that the judgement is a process (temporal context) or event (thematic context), over which ὁ κύριος will preside or be a particular part of, then you should compose with the ὁ κύριος after the core verbal unit, but if you are thinking that κρινεῖ ἡμὰς is is just one of the functions / duties that ὁ κύριος will carry out, the you could leave it in front (there is scope for variability in the placement of the elements based on wider concerns).
Basically, you need to compose your Greek according to some sort of Greek word order guidelines. English regularly puts the temporal phrase at the end of a sentence, but Greek is basically the opposite, because the time - the time of day or the event which is used to mark time - is the (temporal) context, ie the thing within which the other events of the sentence occur. By putting the temporal phrase after the ὁ κύριος κρινεῖ ἡμάς, you have made ὁ κύριος κρινεῖ ἡμὰς the (thematic) context, within which the time occurs, but the time (indicated by event) is constructed into a prepositional phrase - which type of phrase is generally a contextualising structure. In other words, you have composed this with a contextualising phrase in a (specific) event position.
Reading it as you have composed it is to make the second coming dependent on the need for judgement. Like saying conceptually that it was out of a need for judgement that the second coming was planned.
Greek word order is quite straightforward, and it has some basic principles that we can follow. I wish you all the best in your future compositions.