[Dickey] Ch 1: Preliminary Exercises A & B

A subforum for working through Eleanor Dickey's An Introduction to the Composition and Analysis of Greek Prose, which can be purchased online at Cambridge press or Amazon.

If you are interested and want to get started, or want to look at a sample before you jump in, the intro on accents and the first chapter is available online as a free PDF here .
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EricSowell
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[Dickey] Ch 1: Preliminary Exercises A & B

Post by EricSowell » July 30th, 2019, 12:08 am

See this thread for general info and discussion about what we're doing here

Our goal for the next two weeks (approximately July 29th to Aug 10th) is to complete chapter 1, pages 8-15. We will have separate threads for the sentences and analysis portions of this chapter.

When you complete yours, or even part of it, reply to this thread with it. If you have anything to discuss, reply to the thread
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 1, Preliminary Exercises A & B

Post by Jason Hare » July 30th, 2019, 9:53 pm

Let's try not to take this chapter too fast!

I'm still working from a printout of the first chapter. My copy of the book is supposed to be here on August 5 (إن شاء الله). I hope we don't make it out of chapter 1 before my book arrives. I don't want to fall behind.

I'm glad that you mentioned giving it two weeks before moving on to the next one. I really hope that it will arrive by the beginning of next week and that I'll be with you from then on with the book. I have Amazon Prime, but I don't live in the United States!
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Jason A. Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 1, Preliminary Exercises A & B

Post by Jason Hare » July 30th, 2019, 10:06 pm

Prelimiary exercise 1 (on A).
a. freedom: articular (abstract).
b. traders: articular (particular group); marketplace: anarthrous (ἐν ἀγορᾷ is a special phrase); sons: articular (family relation).
c. thieves: anarthrous (unidentified individuals); gold: articular (specific item); temple: articular (specific location).
d. thieves: articular (generalization).
e. thieves: anarthrous (unidentified individuals); marketplace: articular (specific place).
f. humility: articular (abstract); Greeks: articular (generalization).
g. sister: articular (family relation).
h. Themistocles: articular/anarthrous (arguable); king: anarthrous (Persian king).
i. brothers: anarthrous (not related to anyone in specific except to each other); pigeons: anarthrous (non-specific).
j. brothers: articular (family relation); pigeons: anarthrous (non-specific).
k. brothers: articular (generalization).
l. brothers: anarthrous (non-specific); robbery: articular (a specific act).
m. love: articular (abstract).
n. Athenians: articular (generalization); Socrates: articular (specific person).
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Jason A. Hare
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EricSowell
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 1, Preliminary Exercises A & B

Post by EricSowell » July 31st, 2019, 10:19 pm

Jason Hare wrote:
July 30th, 2019, 9:53 pm
I'm glad that you mentioned giving it two weeks before moving on to the next one. I really hope that it will arrive by the beginning of next week and that I'll be with you from then on with the book. I have Amazon Prime, but I don't live in the United States!
We definitely won't leave you behind!
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 1, Preliminary Exercises A & B

Post by Jason Hare » August 5th, 2019, 8:04 pm

(Using my brand new copy of the book!)

Preliminary exercise 2 (on B).
a. man: yes (rule B1); prisoners: yes (definite); they: yes (rule B4b); stones: no (indefinite).
b. men: yes (rule B1); they: no (no oblique case before the contrast).
c. Fighting: yes (rule B2); armor: no (indefinite); men: no (indefinite).
d. boys: no (indefinite); house: yes (definite); man: yes (definite); one: yes (rule B4a); other: yes (rule B4a).
e. men: yes (definite); lying: yes (rule B2).
f. Lying: yes (rule B2); men: yes (rule B1).
g. men: yes (rule B1); stealing: yes (rule B2); they: no (no oblique case before).
h. things: no (indefinite).
i. women: yes (rule B4a); things: no (indefinite); others: yes (rule B4a).
j. women: yes (rule B1); they: no (no oblique case before).
k. things: yes (rule B3); temple: yes (definite); fire: yes (definite).
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EricSowell
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 1, Preliminary Exercises A & B

Post by EricSowell » August 7th, 2019, 9:01 am

Jason Hare wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 8:04 pm
c. Fighting: yes (rule B2); armor: no (indefinite); men: no (indefinite).
d. boys: no (indefinite); house: yes (definite); man: yes (definite); one: yes (rule B4a); other: yes (rule B4a).
h. things: no (indefinite).
i. women: yes (rule B4a); things: no (indefinite); others: yes (rule B4a).
I have a few differences in exercise 2.

c. men - could be arthrous, as a substantivized adjective, or a noun + adjective without an article
d. boys - maybe arthrous, as this could analogous to A1, second example, οἱ Ἕλληνες ἔφυγον?
h. things - arthrous, I would do this as an substantivized adjective, analogous to B1, third example, οὐκ ἐθέλω τὰ αἰσχρὰ μανθάνειν
i. things - arthrous, substantivized adjective

Seems to me that adjectives can be articular to make them nouns without necessarily making them definite/specific.
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Daniel Semler
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 1, Preliminary Exercises A & B

Post by Daniel Semler » August 7th, 2019, 11:13 pm

Jason Hare wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 8:04 pm
(Using my brand new copy of the book!)

Preliminary exercise 2 (on B).
a. man: yes (rule B1); prisoners: yes (definite); they: yes (rule B4b); stones: no (indefinite).
b. men: yes (rule B1); they: no (no oblique case before the contrast).
c. Fighting: yes (rule B2); armor: no (indefinite); men: no (indefinite).
d. boys: no (indefinite); house: yes (definite); man: yes (definite); one: yes (rule B4a); other: yes (rule B4a).
e. men: yes (definite); lying: yes (rule B2).
f. Lying: yes (rule B2); men: yes (rule B1).
g. men: yes (rule B1); stealing: yes (rule B2); they: no (no oblique case before).
h. things: no (indefinite).
i. women: yes (rule B4a); things: no (indefinite); others: yes (rule B4a).
j. women: yes (rule B1); they: no (no oblique case before).
k. things: yes (rule B3); temple: yes (definite); fire: yes (definite).
EricSowell wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 9:01 am
Jason Hare wrote:
August 5th, 2019, 8:04 pm
c. Fighting: yes (rule B2); armor: no (indefinite); men: no (indefinite).
d. boys: no (indefinite); house: yes (definite); man: yes (definite); one: yes (rule B4a); other: yes (rule B4a).
h. things: no (indefinite).
i. women: yes (rule B4a); things: no (indefinite); others: yes (rule B4a).
I have a few differences in exercise 2.

c. men - could be arthrous, as a substantivized adjective, or a noun + adjective without an article
d. boys - maybe arthrous, as this could analogous to A1, second example, οἱ Ἕλληνες ἔφυγον?
h. things - arthrous, I would do this as an substantivized adjective, analogous to B1, third example, οὐκ ἐθέλω τὰ αἰσχρὰ μανθάνειν
i. things - arthrous, substantivized adjective

Seems to me that adjectives can be articular to make them nouns without necessarily making them definite/specific.
I differ on a few here.

c. men : yes - substantival adj.
d. Agree with Jason here. Incidentally, this is how Dickey calls it in the answer key. I think to be articular you'd want to identify two specific boys rather than just two boys.
h. things: yes - articular plural neuter adj. How did you guys handle this one ?
i. things: I did what Eric did here.

Thx
D
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Daniel Semler
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 1, Preliminary Exercises A & B

Post by Daniel Semler » August 7th, 2019, 11:21 pm

Jason Hare wrote:
July 30th, 2019, 10:06 pm
Prelimiary exercise 1 (on A).
a. freedom: articular (abstract).
b. traders: articular (particular group); marketplace: anarthrous (ἐν ἀγορᾷ is a special phrase); sons: articular (family relation).
c. thieves: anarthrous (unidentified individuals); gold: articular (specific item); temple: articular (specific location).
d. thieves: articular (generalization).
e. thieves: anarthrous (unidentified individuals); marketplace: articular (specific place).
f. humility: articular (abstract); Greeks: articular (generalization).
g. sister: articular (family relation).
h. Themistocles: articular/anarthrous (arguable); king: anarthrous (Persian king).
i. brothers: anarthrous (not related to anyone in specific except to each other); pigeons: anarthrous (non-specific).
j. brothers: articular (family relation); pigeons: anarthrous (non-specific).
k. brothers: articular (generalization).
l. brothers: anarthrous (non-specific); robbery: articular (a specific act).
m. love: articular (abstract).
n. Athenians: articular (generalization); Socrates: articular (specific person).
e. marketplace: anarthrous - ἀγορᾳ is special.
i. I took the pigeons to be known specific pigeons as the English uses 'the' in contrast to j where it does not.
n. I couldn't really decide on Themistocles as per footnote 4. It could go either way I guess.

Thx
D
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