The Weekend Papyrus 6-18-2021

Other Greek writings of the New Testament era, including papyri and inscriptions
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Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 2040
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

The Weekend Papyrus 6-18-2021

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

"A letter from Heraclides to Hatres, reproaching him for not sending 20 drachmae. The letter is on the verso of the papyrus, the recto containing parts of nineteen lines from a taxing-account." G&F. This is P.Oxy 3.532, http://papyri.info/ddbdp/p.oxy;3;532. Have fun, and make sure you work through the Greek before you look at the translation (for maximum benefit to your Greek).

1 Ἡρακλείδης Ἁτρῆτι
2 τῶι φιλτ(άτῳ) χ[α]ίρειν.
3 ἔδει μέν σε χωρ[ὶς τ]οῦ με
4 γεγραφέναι σοι διὰ Σαήτου
5 ἀναπέμψαι τὰς (δραχμὰς) κ, εἰδὼς
6 ὅτι αὐτόθι μετεβαλόμην
7 τοῖς κοινωνοῖς μου αὐ-
8 τάς, ἀλλὰ ἀνέμεινας τὸν
9 τοσοῦτον χρόνον μὴ ἀπο-
10 δούς. ἀναγκαίως οὖν τῷ
11 ἀναδιδό{υ}ντι σοι τὸ ἐπιστό-
12 λιον τοῦτο εὐθέως
13 ἀπόδος ὅπως κἀμὲ
14 ἄσκυλτον ποιήσῃς.
15 ὅρα οὖν μὴ ἄλλως πράξῃς
16 ⟦μὴ⟧ καὶ ποιήσῃς με πρὸς
17 σὲ ἐλθεῖν συνζητήσον-
18 τά σοι. καὶ γὰρ ἐν Παώ-
19 μει τότε σε εὗρον καὶ
20 βουλόμενόν σε φιλαν-
21 θρωπῶ⟦ση⟧σαι οὐκ ἀ-
22 νέμεινας ὑπὸ κακοῦ
23 συνειδότος κατεχό-
24 μενος.


3. ει of εδει corr. from ι. σε above και, which is crossed through.; 15. ν of ουν above the line.; 20. l. φιλανθρωπῆσαι.; 22. υ of κακου corr. from ς.

My notes:

Remember that double brackets [[...]] indicate that the text is in the papyrus but should not be read.
κ = 20.
18-21, some confusing syntax but fairly clear what's intended.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Daniel Semler
Posts: 267
Joined: February 18th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Re: The Weekend Papyrus 6-18-2021

Post by Daniel Semler »

Barry Hofstetter wrote: June 18th, 2021, 7:17 am
18 τά σοι. καὶ γὰρ ἐν Παώ-
19 μει τότε σε εὗρον καὶ
20 βουλόμενόν σε φιλαν-
21 θρωπῶ⟦ση⟧σαι οὐκ ἀ-
22 νέμεινας ὑπὸ κακοῦ
23 συνειδότος κατεχό-
24 μενος.


3. ει of εδει corr. from ι. σε above και, which is crossed through.; 15. ν of ουν above the line.; 20. l. φιλανθρωπῆσαι.; 22. υ of κακου corr. from ς.

My notes:

Remember that double brackets [[...]] indicate that the text is in the papyrus but should not be read.
κ = 20.
18-21, some confusing syntax but fairly clear what's intended.
I had a bit of trouble with the section above making a bit of a hash of the final clauses initially but what gave me unexpected trouble was τότε. I had not expected it to be used in the way that G&H handle it here referring to a recent past event. So I had some confusion as to when the event occurred. Is this a common way to use τὀτε ?

Thx
D
Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 2040
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: The Weekend Papyrus 6-18-2021

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Daniel Semler wrote: June 25th, 2021, 9:20 am
I had a bit of trouble with the section above making a bit of a hash of the final clauses initially but what gave me unexpected trouble was τότε. I had not expected it to be used in the way that G&H handle it here referring to a recent past event. So I had some confusion as to when the event occurred. Is this a common way to use τὀτε ?

Thx
D
τότε τό, τε adv. in correspondence with rel. ὅτε, ὁπότε, with the interrog. [πότε] ⓐ usu. of the past then, at that time

Montanari, F. (2015). M. Goh & C. Schroeder (Eds.), The Brill Dictionary of Ancient Greek. Leiden; Boston: Brill.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Daniel Semler
Posts: 267
Joined: February 18th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Re: The Weekend Papyrus 6-18-2021

Post by Daniel Semler »

Barry Hofstetter wrote: June 25th, 2021, 9:36 am
Daniel Semler wrote: June 25th, 2021, 9:20 am
I had a bit of trouble with the section above making a bit of a hash of the final clauses initially but what gave me unexpected trouble was τότε. I had not expected it to be used in the way that G&H handle it here referring to a recent past event. So I had some confusion as to when the event occurred. Is this a common way to use τὀτε ?

Thx
D
τότε τό, τε adv. in correspondence with rel. ὅτε, ὁπότε, with the interrog. [πότε] ⓐ usu. of the past then, at that time

Montanari, F. (2015). M. Goh & C. Schroeder (Eds.), The Brill Dictionary of Ancient Greek. Leiden; Boston: Brill.
I guess my issue was not past reference per se, the distance to the past event - I had always taken τότε to indicate a rather more remote event than this example suggests. And I didn't see anything that indicated any degree of distance to the event - well except that a remote event is hard to fit to the context which was my problem. I'll have to look more into expressions of temporal reference. And I'll watch for this sort of thing from now on.

Still need to get BrillDAG.

Thx
D
Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 2040
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: The Weekend Papyrus 6-18-2021

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Daniel Semler wrote: June 25th, 2021, 10:08 am
I guess my issue was not past reference per se, the distance to the past event - I had always taken τότε to indicate a rather more remote event than this example suggests. And I didn't see anything that indicated any degree of distance to the event - well except that a remote event is hard to fit to the context which was my problem. I'll have to look more into expressions of temporal reference. And I'll watch for this sort of thing from now on.

Still need to get BrillDAG.

Thx
D
Sorry I was lazy and just threw BDAG at you... :) I have never seen τότε as inherently of remote past events, but the remoteness is something which conditioned by context. Even if it is used generally of remote instances or events, that doesn't always mean native speakers of the language won't use it in living speech in a different way than we see it in more formal literature. It would interesting to research this in the papyri in comparison with it's use in higher register Greek to see how "loosely" it's used. Now I'm way too busy (spelled lazy) to engage in that sort of study at this point, but maybe some young enterprising Greek student could take it on... :)
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
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