Ισαακ or Ισακ
The hebrew pronunciation was something like "yitschâk" (I don't know any hebrew, so I have to trust the Internet for that).
As Greek Variants I see Ισαακ (in most Manuscripts), Ισακ (in Cod. Sin., Cod. Bezae, P13, P46). In Editions: Ισαακ.
Septuagint as far as I could check: only Ισαακ.
In the Old-Latin I find : Isaac, Isac, Isach and Isahac.
The Gothic Bible has Isak.
Following the Hebrew Pronunciation: What would have been the best fitting Greek way to write the name?
Regards
Jean Putmans
Ισαακ or Ισακ
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Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
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Ισαακ or Ισακ
Jean Putmans
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Re: Ισαακ or Ισακ
If we're going to make a game out of it, then I would do this:Jean Putmans wrote: ↑June 6th, 2020, 6:40 am Ισαακ or Ισακ
The hebrew pronunciation was something like "yitschâk" (I don't know any hebrew, so I have to trust the Internet for that).
As Greek Variants I see Ισαακ (in most Manuscripts), Ισακ (in Cod. Sin., Cod. Bezae, P13, P46). In Editions: Ισαακ.
Septuagint as far as I could check: only Ισαακ.
In the Old-Latin I find : Isaac, Isac, Isach and Isahac.
The Gothic Bible has Isak.
Following the Hebrew Pronunciation: What would have been the best fitting Greek way to write the name?
Regards
Jean Putmans
יִ = Ι
צ = τσ
ח = χ
ָ = α
ק = κ
יִצְחַק = Ἰτσχάκ
As it is, sigma was used to transliterate most of the sibilants (even if it was ts [ṣ] or sh [š]), both ה and ח were often ignored, and the guttural coloring of the vowel might easy be conveyed as a doubled vowel. Ἰσαάκ isn't really an unreasonable transliteration. I would have gone with Ἰσχάκ, but I can understand why they went with the other.
Jason A. Hare
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The Hebrew Café
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Re: Ισαακ or Ισακ
That transliteration makes sense, but I wonder how hard it would be for Greeks to pronounce it. The transliterations we see in manuscripts feel like much more natural Greek to me.Jason Hare wrote: ↑June 8th, 2020, 4:52 am If we're going to make a game out of it, then I would do this:
יִ = Ι
צ = τσ
ח = χ
ָ = α
ק = κ
יִצְחַק = Ἰτσχάκ
As it is, sigma was used to transliterate most of the sibilants (even if it was ts [ṣ] or sh [š]), both ה and ח were often ignored, and the guttural coloring of the vowel might easy be conveyed as a doubled vowel. Ἰσαάκ isn't really an unreasonable transliteration. I would have gone with Ἰσχάκ, but I can understand why they went with the other.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Ισαακ or Ισακ
Thanks for the Explanation.
That double vowel (as used in the mas of Greek Mss.) would have resulted in the name (like in some Itala Mss.) Isahak (just like Abraham).
Regards,
Jean
That double vowel (as used in the mas of Greek Mss.) would have resulted in the name (like in some Itala Mss.) Isahak (just like Abraham).
Regards,
Jean
Jean Putmans
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Re: Ισαακ or Ισακ
Cool! That makes sense. I'm not sure I would describe it as a double vowel, but I can see how that transliteration would come to be. I'm a newbie at Hebrew, but I think the syllabification is:Jean Putmans wrote: ↑June 9th, 2020, 12:48 am That double vowel (as used in the mas of Greek Mss.) would have resulted in the name (like in some Itala Mss.) Isahak (just like Abraham).
יִצְ-חַק
Ἰτσ-χάκ
Are there any Greek manuscripts that use transliterations that come close to that?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Ισαακ or Ισακ
Yes there are some Greek Mss. that have Ισακ: Cod. Sinaiticus, Cod. Bezae, (Papyri:) P13, P46.
In the Itala (=the Old-Latin versions): Isaac, Isac, Isach and ... Isahac.
The Gothic has all -αα- transliterated -aha-, but it has Isak.
Regards
Jean
In the Itala (=the Old-Latin versions): Isaac, Isac, Isach and ... Isahac.
The Gothic has all -αα- transliterated -aha-, but it has Isak.
Regards
Jean
Jean Putmans
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Re: Ισαακ or Ισακ
Dear Jonathan,
if You were looking for Greek Variants with something like Ισχαχ: either there are none, or at least till now I didn't find them!
The Latin Isach comes closest I think.
Regards
Jean
if You were looking for Greek Variants with something like Ισχαχ: either there are none, or at least till now I didn't find them!
The Latin Isach comes closest I think.
Regards
Jean
Jean Putmans
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Re: Ισαακ or Ισακ
Sure, but that doesn't involve the problematic χ. It's not what I meant by "close".Jean Putmans wrote: ↑June 9th, 2020, 9:38 am Yes there are some Greek Mss. that have Ισακ: Cod. Sinaiticus, Cod. Bezae, (Papyri:) P13, P46.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/