Blessings to All,
I had a question concerning
1 Corinthians 4:15
For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
My question is in regards to fathers, in particular to this greek word for many "polys". The Bible says you can have many teachers but few fathers.
Has anyone studied this word in greek to determine how many is polys?
4? 5? 6? Does Polys begin at 7? Our north american mindset thinks of the word "several"...and that cpuld mean many...however, other passages speaks of Polys at a multitude... but in english Many can mean several..ore more...10 or more... 20 or more... you see what I am getting at...
Does anyone have examples of Polys in use, showing where few becomes many?
When I think of few i think of 2, 3, 4... and many as 10 or higher...
But I am north american and I need to understand the context of Apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
So my question essentially is, "When does Polys become Polys?" Is there a number? Or an example in the NT or outside we can see?
How much is Many? Numerics of polys πολύς...
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Re: How much is Many? Numerics of polys πολύς...
In human languages in general negatives are sometimes notoriously difficult to understand. What exactly is negated, and what is the result? In this case, too, knowing what the word πολύς means in itself doesn't help much; it just means "many", "much" etc. It's not a number any more than the English or some other language equivalent.
When that is negated, the result is ambiguous, just as in English. Not many - whatever it means. And the meaning must be understood from the context. You could interpret it as "only a few", "few": "you can have only few fathers". But interpreting it in its context it could also mean that Paul alone is their spiritual "father", meaning the one who "fathered" them (what a strange word! I'm not a native English speaker, but I have seen it being used only in systematic theology referring to the "eternal generation" of the Son so that the Father "fathers" him). In our cultures only a woman is pregnant and especially gives birth -- note the clumsiness of "we are pregnant" etc. -- but in ancient cultures they routinely used the word γενναω of both mother and father.
Paul's point is not that he alone could be their father, and also not that there can be only some certain number of fathers. You have to let the text loose and tell its own message without reducing the meaning to the strict combination of strictly defined words.
The verse 15 is in the middle of vv. 14 and 16, and they are the point. He uses his status as their special "father" as rhetorical basis for giving them an example to follow.
When that is negated, the result is ambiguous, just as in English. Not many - whatever it means. And the meaning must be understood from the context. You could interpret it as "only a few", "few": "you can have only few fathers". But interpreting it in its context it could also mean that Paul alone is their spiritual "father", meaning the one who "fathered" them (what a strange word! I'm not a native English speaker, but I have seen it being used only in systematic theology referring to the "eternal generation" of the Son so that the Father "fathers" him). In our cultures only a woman is pregnant and especially gives birth -- note the clumsiness of "we are pregnant" etc. -- but in ancient cultures they routinely used the word γενναω of both mother and father.
Paul's point is not that he alone could be their father, and also not that there can be only some certain number of fathers. You have to let the text loose and tell its own message without reducing the meaning to the strict combination of strictly defined words.
The verse 15 is in the middle of vv. 14 and 16, and they are the point. He uses his status as their special "father" as rhetorical basis for giving them an example to follow.
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Re: How much is Many? Numerics of polys πολύς...
Excellent comment as always, Eeli!
While it may not answer your question about number, one of the best ways to get a feel for how Greek words are used is to use a concordance search and see how it is used in other NT passages. First, see if it is used elsewhere in Paul, then in other writers. Second, expand your search to cover the Septuagint and the early Greek fathers (the Apostolic Fathers first.) Then check usage in non-Biblical authors. Time with a lexicon also pays off. First BDAG for the NT, then LSJ for the non-Biblical writers, especially the classics, although it sometimes deals with NT and Septuagint usage.
While it may not answer your question about number, one of the best ways to get a feel for how Greek words are used is to use a concordance search and see how it is used in other NT passages. First, see if it is used elsewhere in Paul, then in other writers. Second, expand your search to cover the Septuagint and the early Greek fathers (the Apostolic Fathers first.) Then check usage in non-Biblical authors. Time with a lexicon also pays off. First BDAG for the NT, then LSJ for the non-Biblical writers, especially the classics, although it sometimes deals with NT and Septuagint usage.
Dewayne Dulaney
Δεβένιος Δουλένιος
Blog: https://letancientvoicesspeak.wordpress.com/
"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'
Δεβένιος Δουλένιος
Blog: https://letancientvoicesspeak.wordpress.com/
"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'