Introduction

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tghagen
Posts: 7
Joined: April 16th, 2025, 8:20 am

Introduction

Post by tghagen »

Actually, I am returning to the Forum after a somewhat lengthy absence. I couldn't remember my password and the password reset didn't seem to work, so I had to re-register with a different email address.

I live in Livorno, Italy where I am one of the lay preachers in the local Baptist church. I have never formally studied Greek but I have picked up enough to profit from consulting thesauruses, commentaries, etc. where the Greek text is explained. I have already submitted questions to the Forum when, for my sermon preparation, I needed clarification on a text. And that is the case for a question I would like to submit now.

I have a question about John 20.7: “καὶ τὸ σουδάριον, ὃ ἦν ἐπὶ τῆς κεφαλῆς αὐτοῦ, οὐ μετὰ τῶν ὀθονίων κείμενον ἀλλὰ χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον εἰς ἕνα τόπον·”

My question concerns in particular the phrase: “ἀλλὰ χωρὶς ἐντετυλιγμένον εἰς ἕνα τόπον·”
Most translations give the impression that the σουδάριον had been deliberately rolled up or folded and placed at a certain distance from the rest of the linen wrappings. For example, the American Standard Version has: “and the napkin, that was upon his head, not lying with the linen cloths, but rolled up in a place by itself.”

However, I have read some commentaries which argue that the Greek text means simply that the σουδάριον was in the place where the head of Jesus had been – separate in the sense of not being attached to the linen wrappings but rather an independent piece of cloth – and still maintaining the wrapped form it had had when tied around Jesus’ head, albeit now deflated or empty.

This idea seems to be reflected in the New International Version: “as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus' head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen.
I would like to know if this second position is sustainable from the linguistic point of view.

Thank you.

Thomas Hagen
Shirley Rollinson
Posts: 426
Joined: June 4th, 2011, 6:19 pm
Location: New Mexico
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Re: Introduction

Post by Shirley Rollinson »

My initial reaction, having read the Greek, is that the nit-picky exactness of how one translates the Greek does not matter. The main point is "He is not here, for He has risen, Alleluia!"
Shirley Rollinson

PS - if you want to study some more Greek, at your own pace, and reading parts of the new Testament as you proceed, I have a Greek Textbook online for free access, at https://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook02/index.html with Table of Contents at https://www.drshirley.org/greek/textboo ... tents.html
tghagen
Posts: 7
Joined: April 16th, 2025, 8:20 am

Re: Introduction

Post by tghagen »

Shirley Rollinson wrote: April 19th, 2025, 3:42 pm My initial reaction, having read the Greek, is that the nit-picky exactness of how one translates the Greek does not matter. The main point is "He is not here, for He has risen, Alleluia!"
Shirley Rollinson

PS - if you want to study some more Greek, at your own pace, and reading parts of the new Testament as you proceed, I have a Greek Textbook online for free access, at https://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook02/index.html with Table of Contents at https://www.drshirley.org/greek/textboo ... tents.html
Thank you, Shirley, for your comment. I agree with what you say about the "main point", although asking "nit-picky" questions at times helps avoid some of the preposterous ideas that you find on the Internet. Thank you, also, for the link to your textbook (and for the enormous amount of work that went into it). I'm sure that I'll make use of it.
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