Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

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Matthew Longhorn
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Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Matthew Longhorn » November 21st, 2019, 8:53 am

I have just noticed that a translation of Siebenthal’s Ancient Greek Grammar has just been published by Peter Lang publishers.
Anyone have any thought on the merits or issues with this grammar?

https://www.peterlang.com/view/title/71477

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MAubrey
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by MAubrey » November 22nd, 2019, 1:09 pm

I have a copy in the mail. I've looked at the German edition a few times, but I've never had the capacity for evaluating the German version in depth. Hopefully, I'll have time to dig into it this winter.
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Matthew Longhorn
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Matthew Longhorn » November 22nd, 2019, 2:36 pm

I will be interested to hear your thoughts if you do get round to posting them on your site.
I ordered a copy as well, can’t hurt.

I have spotted some reviews indicating that he isn’t particularly favourable to the aspect only view. Beyond that I Just spotted in Logos that the Bulletin for Biblical Research vol 22, number 3 has a review which ends as below

“ Siebenthal’s grammar can fairly be called a research grammar: it certainly replaces Blass, Debrunner, and Rehkopf (and even more so Blass, Debrunner, and Funk, the English translation of an earlier Blass and Debrunner), and it is much more comprehensive than Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics (1996), which is “an exegetical syntax of the New Testament.” Siebenthal’s superb grammar of NT Greek will certainly become a key reference for German-speaking scholars. This reviewer hopes that Siebenthal becomes available before long in English: there is no comparable grammar to which exegetes who are not eager to cite introductory Greek textbooks can refer in commentaries, monographs, and essays. There have been some whisperings that this will happen; if this is correct, we would formulate the anticipated completion of this project with the proleptic aorist, rather than with the future tense.”
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Barry Hofstetter » November 25th, 2019, 1:27 pm

And I'm writing a review on it (my copy is also in the mail). The review is not due until the end of summer 2020, but I'll give everybody a sneak preview of coming attractions as soon as I can. In the meantime, I don't doubt that some people already have it, so feel free to post your reactions.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 27th, 2019, 1:06 pm

I have the German original, and have been very impressed with it. Right now, I am using Siebenthal and the Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek as my two go-to grammars. In German, Siebenthal's explanations are clear and precise, and he gives lots of excellent examples.

I'm curious about how literal the English translation is. The original German, if translated very literally, would probably be strange English and hard to read.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Matthew Longhorn
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Matthew Longhorn » November 27th, 2019, 3:24 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
November 27th, 2019, 1:06 pm
Right now, I am using Siebenthal and the Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek as my two go-to grammars.
You are using the Classical Greek one for Koine or for classical?
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 27th, 2019, 4:40 pm

Matthew Longhorn wrote:
November 27th, 2019, 3:24 pm
Jonathan Robie wrote:
November 27th, 2019, 1:06 pm
Right now, I am using Siebenthal and the Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek as my two go-to grammars.
You are using the Classical Greek one for Koine or for classical?
For Koine, in much the same way that I use Smyth. Koine is close enough to Attic that you can learn a lot from a good classical grammar, but you do have to be careful about the places they differ.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Eeli Kaikkonen
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen » November 27th, 2019, 5:28 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
November 27th, 2019, 1:06 pm
I'm curious about how literal the English translation is.
Isn't it the forum policy that we don't discuss about accuracy of translations here?

(Just joking...)
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 27th, 2019, 5:55 pm

Matthew Longhorn wrote:
November 22nd, 2019, 2:36 pm
“ Siebenthal’s grammar can fairly be called a research grammar: it certainly replaces Blass, Debrunner, and Rehkopf (and even more so Blass, Debrunner, and Funk, the English translation of an earlier Blass and Debrunner), and it is much more comprehensive than Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics (1996), which is “an exegetical syntax of the New Testament.” Siebenthal’s superb grammar of NT Greek will certainly become a key reference for German-speaking scholars. This reviewer hopes that Siebenthal becomes available before long in English: there is no comparable grammar to which exegetes who are not eager to cite introductory Greek textbooks can refer in commentaries, monographs, and essays. There have been some whisperings that this will happen; if this is correct, we would formulate the anticipated completion of this project with the proleptic aorist, rather than with the future tense.”
The big deal with Siebenthal is that it essentially gives me the clear explanations of Smyth, the examples of Robinson, and a focus on Koine so that I don't have to consult Blass, Debrunner, and Rehkopf to see what the differences are between Attic and Koine. And it does so using less antiquated linguistics, so I don't have to try translating what he says into the vocabulary current scholars are using.

That saves an awful lot of time.

He does like to use abbreviations like ACI (accusativus cum infinitivo) that make it harder to read. Given what I mentioned in the first paragraph, I don't mind that so much ...
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Matthew Longhorn
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Re: Siebenthal - Ancient Greek Grammar

Post by Matthew Longhorn » November 28th, 2019, 8:39 am

Good point Jonathan, thanks for the tip. I bought the classical grammar a while back and it has largely sat untouched on my shelf. I planned to use it as a resource to check plausibility of proposals for Koine that I may find questionable.
Will have to dust it off and see if I can benefit from it more generally
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