[B-Greek] 1 Peter 2:8b

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun Mar 21 21:41:27 EST 2004


At 3:50 PM -0800 3/21/04, waldo slusher wrote:
>Samuel:
>
>For Dr. Conrad's views on the QH- forms all you need
>to do is check the archives here or visit his web site
>and check out his excellent article on the Middle
>Voice.
>
>Something you will discover there is the QH- forms are
>not generally passive in meaning, and one should
>expect a middle sense if no agent is stated or
>implied.

That somewhat oversimplifies what I have argued, which is rather that the
-QH- forms may bear either middle or passive meanings and that the
particular verb in question and the context of usage in particular
instances must be considered. I did at one time say that we should not
assume a middle-passive form is passive unless it is clearly indicated by
an agent construction or an indication of instrumentality but I would be
more wary now and say that I think there are not infrequently instances
where one may surmise an implicit agent or instrument. I think that is the
case in he passage here under discussion.

>That said, I would take exception to Dr. Conrad's
>reply to this thread. The 2 examples he gave were
>contexts in which agency is in the forefront. And
>elsewhere Paul clearly tells us that he was appointed
>BY GOD to his apostleship and as proclaimer of the
>gospel.
>
>I think the foreordination of God is better seen in
>other passages; not this one. Here in 1 Peter there is
>no agent and I would leave it that way. It makes
>perfect sense to keep the active-middle alliance in
>this passage if you ask me. That is, since Peter tells
>us that they were disobedient to the word, let that
>action account for the consequences, not some unnamed
>agent.

Quite frankly I think that TIQHMI is a fully transitive verb--since it is a
verb in everyday use it was very slow to shift over into Omega-conjugation
and later conjugational paradigms-- it is one of the relatively few Greek
verbs which have BOTH forms of the aorist: MHN/SO/TO and QHN/QHS/QH (in the
great majority of verbs with presents in MAI/SAI/TAI there is only the
-QHN/QHS/QH aorist); I think that if the author had intended the middle
sense "to which they set themselves" he would have written EQENTO. I'm not
concerned with what implications we see in this understanding of the
grammatical construction, but I am concerned that we recognize this as a
verb wherein EQESAN, EQENTO and ETEQHSAN represent three clear semantic
voice distinctions. In contemporary American English ETEQHSAN means "they
got appointed/assigned," NOT "they got themselves appointed/assigned."


>--- Samuel Sais <samuel at sais-cat.net> wrote:
>> In the GNT we find the form EQOU, EQETO, EQESQE,
>> EQENTO from a supposed form EQEMHN.... for the
>> middle voice, and ETEQH/N, ETEQHSAN from a supposed
>> form ETEQHMHN... So, being that I'm not aware of Dr.
>> Conrad's comments (sorry), and that the NT does
>> distingish between the two forms, I'd say that the
>> form ETEQHSAN is clearly a passive form. About
>> TIQHMI with EIS, we learn from BDAG (TIQHMI b 5)
>> that can be rendered as "to be put (to function) as
>> a...". By the way, I'd be very aknowledged being
>> informed about Dr. Conrad's comments (off-line of
>> course) about this item.
>> Thank you
>>
>> Samuel Sais
>> Facultat de Teologia de Catalunya
>> InstituciÛ BÌblica EvangËlica de Catalunya
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> KAI LIQOS PROSKOMMATOS KAI PETRA SKANDALOU. hOI
>> PROSKOPTOUSIN TWi LOGWi APEIQOUNTES, EIS hO KAI
>> ETEQHSAN
>>
>> The final phrase EIS hO KAI ETEQHSAN is of interest
>> to
>> me. After reading some of Dr. Conrad's comments
>> regarding the QH- forms, it seems hugh how one takes
>> this, either middle or passive in meaning. How does
>> one go about deciding which sense is best taken
>> here...middle or passive... on purely grammatical
>> grounds?
>>
>> =====
>> Mitch Larramore
>> Spring Branch, Texas
>> Student/Memorial High School
>> ---
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>
>
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-- 

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/



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