[B-Greek] NIKWN in Rev

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 11 07:10:49 EDT 2008


That simply shows how far the Christian transvaluation of values has permeated:  Being subdued rather than subduing, dying for one's faith rather than seeking prominence in all things, being poor rather that simply seeking gain, seeking spiritual life rather than simply physical life, seeking the approval of God rather than fame among men.  This is not what conquering or winning meant in the Kingdom of the Beast though it is in the New Jerusalem which is coming down from God out of heaven.
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Richard W. Wilson <rwwilson147 at swbell.net>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:13:55 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] NIKWN in Rev

Hi George,
It is not evident to me from your post what you mean by saying "the
only times [sic] that it [NIKWN] is used in the conventional sense is in 
13.7."
Every use I've read seems conventional to me, consonant with standard 
lexicons. Are you saying that overcoming sin, evil, temptation, false 
worship the world, etc., is not a conventional kind of conquering or 
overcoming? Well, perhaps, but it seems to be a biblical kind of 
conventional in every sense I can fathom. Conquering does appear to 
correspond with the white robes, or bright and fine linen equated with 
the righteous deeds of the saints (Rev. 19:8). Failure to conquer sin or 
temptations in one's life as Jesus did in his implies a spiritual 
failure that may lead to being blotted out of the Book of (eternal) Life 
(Rev. 3:8). If one's name is in the Lamb's Book of Life then the name 
will be read from the book before God on the Day of Judgment (Rev. 
20:15). Your suggested reasons, as copied below, don't seem to flow 
directly from the text or immediate implications, but interpretation can 
sometimes intentionally be poly-vocal.
All the best, Richard W. Wilson; St. Louis, MO


> Message: 3 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:59:14 -0700 (PDT) From: George F
> Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] NIKWN in Rev To:
> Beata Urbanek <beata.urbanek at op.pl>, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org 
> Message-ID: <486274.48429.qm at web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> The word NIKWN is not used univocally in?the Apocalypse.? Most of the
> time the author stands the term on its head -- what we would normally
> call the "loser" is to him the "winner."? To suffer and even?to die
> on?behalf of the gospel is to conquer.? Out of 24 verses in which the
> verb is used in the NT it appears 15 times in the Apocalypse.? The
> only times that it is used in the conventional sense is in 13.7 . ???
> ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????????????, ???
> ????? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ?????. . 
> KAI EDOQH AUTWi POIHSAI POLEMON META TWN hAGIWN KAI NIKHSAI AUTOUS,
> KAI EDOQH AUTWi ECOUSIA EPI PASAN FULHN KAI LAON KAI GLWSSAN KAI
> EQNOS. . Take a look at 3.5 . ? ?????????? ???????????? ?? ????????
> ??????? ??? ?? ?? ???????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ???
> ????????? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ???
> ??????? ?????. . hO NIKWN hOUTWS PERIBALEITA EN hIMATIOIS LEUKOIS KAI
> OU MH ECALEIYW TO ONOMA AUTOU EK THS BIBLOU THS ZWHS KAI hOMOLOGHSW
> TO ONOMA AUTOU ENWPION TOU PATRO MOU KAI ENWPION TWN AGGELWN AUTOU. .
>  The one who "conquers" is to be?dressed in white.? Why?? Because
> this is the attire of the dead saints.? His name will not be blotted
> out of the?Book of Life.? Why?? Because his life on earth has been
> terminated.? His name will be confessed before the Father.? Why??
> Because his name is no longer mentioned on earth. ?.george gfsomsel


-- 
Richard W. Wilson, MacDealz / Our Net Services, 147 Firwood Dr., St.
Louis, MO 63119; ph: 314-963-1342 ><> + T + <><
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