[B-Greek] pistos etymology
deraby at att.net
deraby at att.net
Sun Sep 21 18:13:45 EDT 2008
This is an interesting question and one I think is deeper than just a short answer. I like what George has said about "trustworthiness." We see that in one definition of Thayer in "confident trust." I have wondered over again why in English we have no verb for faith from the same derivative (ie. Fr. Lt fides). In other words why believe v., belief n. translates pisteuo but not pistis in most English versions.
I see no place or justification for the "blind" acceptance of fact without evidence. Or faith is some type of substance infused into a soul of man therefore enabling him to believe. pistos, pistis seem to be more expressive as trust which does require acceptance of a given fact.
Why is there little or no discussion on this question? Is it too fraught with ambiguity?
This is something I have searched for and wonder if some theological issues influence the early English.
To me faith is not a nuance word, but is a noun that is described by the verb believe. Perhaps it is too loaded with some baggage it does not deserve. Please pardon me if this is not fitting for B-Greek list. I enjoy what I read and learn here. Donald Raby
-------------- Original message from George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>: --------------
I know of no discussion of the etymology of πιστός [PISTOS] though that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist somewhere. It would seem that its significance has been rather stable through the history of the language. In
> Iliad 2.123-130 we find
> . εἴ περ γάρ κ᾽ ἐθέλοιμενἈχαιοίτε Τρῶές τε ρκιαπιστὰ ταμόντες ἀριθμηθήμεναιἄμφω, φÎ στιοιὅσσοιἔασιν, μεῖςδ᾽ ἐςδεκάδας διακÎ ¿σμηθεῖμεν Ἀχαιοί, νδραἕκαστοιἑλοίμεθαοá ¼°νοχοεύειν, γώφημι πλέας ἔμμεναιυἷας Ἀχαιá
> ¿¶νὅ
> 125 Τρῶας μὲν λέξασθαι ἐ
> ἡ
> Τρώων δ᾽ ἄ
> πολλαί κεν δεκάδες δευοίατο οἰνοχόοιο.
> Τόσσον ἐ
> 130 Τρώων, οἳ ναίουσι κατὰ πτόλιν· .EI PER YAR K' EQELOIMEN AXAIOI TE TRWES TEORKIA PISTA TAMONTES ARIQMHQHMENAI
> AMFW,125 TRWAS MEN LECASQAI EFESTIOI hOSSOI EASIN,hHMEIS D' ES DEKADAS
> DIAKOSMHQEIMEN AXAIOI,TRWWN D' ANDRA hEKASTOI hELOIMEQA OINOXOEUEIN,POLLAI KEN
> DEKADES DEUOIATO OINOXOOIO.TOSSON EGW FHMI PLEAS EMMENAI hUIAS AXAIWN130 TRWWN,
> hOI NAIOUSI KATA PTOLIN;.
> Homer, Murray, A., & Jackson, J. J. (2008; 2008). The Iliad in Greek (Homer,
> Iliad 2.123). Logos Research Systems, Inc.
> .
> Which A. T. Murray renders as
> .
> For should we be minded, both Achaeans and Trojans, to swear a
> solemn oath with sacrifice, and to number ourselves,
> 125 and should the Trojans be gathered together, even all they that have
> dwellings in the city, and we Achaeans be marshalled by tens, and
> choose, each company of us, a man of the Trojans to pour our wine,
> then would many tens lack a cup-bearer; so far, I deem, do the sons
> of the Achaeans outnumber the Trojans that dwell in the city.
> Homer, & Murray, A. T. (2007). The Iliad. At head of title: Homer. The Loeb
> classical library (Homer, Iliad 2.122). Bellingham: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
> .
> Πιστός [PISTOS] here is used to signify the trustworthy nature of the
> oath in ὅ
> .
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> .
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jeff Miller
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:39:17 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] pistos etymology
>
> Where might I find a discussion or substantiated information on the
> etymology of PISTOS?
>
> Jeff Miller
>
> ρκιαπιστὰ [ORKIA PISTA] (or as Murray translates "solemn oath."
> jeffm at springsofgrace.org
>
>
>
> ---
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