[B-Greek] 1 John 4:2

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 5 13:44:09 EST 2010


Or consider Mk 9.13
ἀλλὰ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι καὶ Ἠλίας ἐλήλυθεν, καὶ ἐποίησαν αὐτῷ ὅσα ἤθελον, καθὼς γέγραπται ἐπʼ αὐτόν.

Surely none would claim that Elijah (in the person of John the Baptist) remains !
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: BG <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Fri, March 5, 2010 11:35:42 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1 John 4:2


On Mar 5, 2010, at 4:48 AM, Iver Larsen wrote:

>> Does the ongoing quality of Christ's (first) coming encompass how he came
>> (in the flesh) or is it restricted to the fact that he came as being
>> something that will never change?
>> 
>> Or are we saying that in the past Jesus came and continued to be present for
>> some time?
>> 
> 
> I would accept this last option. He came and stayed for some time, but there is
> no implication that this state will never change.
> The aorist normally describes an action as completed. You could say that both
> the beginning and end point are in view. So the aorist of "come" would focus on
> the actual arrival as an accomplished fact.
> The perfect usually has the additional nuance of an ongoing activity, so there
> is no focus on the end point. This does not mean that the activity or state will
> continue forever.

Yes, assuming we read the perfect as a stative, the notion of permanence is an additional semantic feature which cannot be supported by observation of how the perfect is used in Koine. In the immediate context we see POLLOI YEUDOPROFHTAI EXELHLUQASIN EIS TON KOSMON. Is anyone going to argue that the stative EXELHLUQASIN EIS TON KOSMON suggests permanence? I don't think so. 



1John 4:1 Ἀγαπητοί, μὴ παντὶ πνεύματι πιστεύετε ἀλλὰ δοκιμάζετε τὰ πνεύματα εἰ ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν, ὅτι πολλοὶ ψευδοπροφῆται ἐξεληλύθασιν εἰς τὸν κόσμον.  2 ἐν τούτῳ γινώσκετε τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ· πᾶν πνεῦμα ὃ ὁμολογεῖ Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν, 

1John 4:1 AGAPHTOI, MH PANTI PNEUMATI PISTEUETE ALLA DOKIMAZETE TA PNEUMATA EI EK TOU QEOU ESTIN, hOTI POLLOI YEUDOPROFHTAI EXELHLUQASIN EIS TON KOSMON.  2 EN TOUTWi GINWSKETE TO PNEUMA TOU QEOU· PAN PNEUMA hO hOMOLOGEI IHSOUN CRISTON EN SARKI ELHLUQOTA EK TOU QEOU ESTIN, 

2John 7 Ὅτι πολλοὶ πλάνοι ἐξῆλθον εἰς τὸν κόσμον, οἱ μὴ ὁμολογοῦντες Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί· οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ πλάνος καὶ ὁ ἀντίχριστος. 

2John 7 hOTI POLLOI PLANOI EXHLQON EIS TON KOSMON, hOI MH hOMOLOGOUNTES IHSOUN CRISTON ERCOMENON EN SARKI· hOUTOS ESTIN hO PLANOS KAI hO ANTICRISTOS. 


On a different topic, with regard to the syntax, Martin Culy (pp. 20,101,147) makes some comments on what he calls the double accusative object complement construction. He disagrees with R.J. Young (Interm. NT Gk p149). I don't totally understand where Culy is going with this. Young's analysis sounds good to me. Young reads the entire participle constituent IHSOUN CRISTON EN SARKI ELHLUQOTA as the object of the verb hOMOLOGEI. Culy prefers to read it as a double accusative object complement construction, where the participle compliments the accusative direct object, predicating something about it. Culy refers to 1John 1:10 YEUSTHN POIOUMEN AUTON as an example. I am not totally convinced that this is the same construction as  hOMOLOGEI IHSOUN CRISTON EN SARKI ELHLUQOTA.


1John 1:10 ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι οὐχ ἡμαρτήκαμεν, ψεύστην ποιοῦμεν αὐτὸν καὶ ὁ λόγος αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν. 

1John 1:10 EAN EIPWMEN hOTI OUC hHMARTHKAMEN, YEUSTHN POIOUMEN AUTON KAI hO LOGOS AUTOU OUK ESTIN EN hHMIN. 

I am not sure this is worth pursuing, seems to be a bit of syntactical hair splitting. 

Elizabeth Kline




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