[B-Greek] Ephesians 1:22

Yancy Smith yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Mon Mar 8 16:07:26 EST 2010


Iver said:
Well, I am hesitant to rely much on the LXX because of its translation Greek, 
and I do not accept Eph 1:22 to be a semitism.
NaTaN has a large semantic range which according to TWOT fall in three main 
classes:
"The three broad areas of meaning of the verb natan are 1) give, 2) put or set, 
and 3) make or constitute."

[Yancy Smith] 
I'm not sure what is to be gained by denying LXX influence in a place where the LXX is being woven in and out of Paul's prose. Futhermore, the co-ordination of a finite verb and a participle looks LXX-ish to me. Ἣν ἐνήργησεν ἐν τῷ Χριστῷ ἐγείρας αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν καὶ καθίσας ἐν δεξιᾷ αὐτοῦ ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις hHN ENERGHSEN EN TWi CRISTWi EGEIRAS AUTON EK NEKRWN KAI KAQISAS EN DEXIA AUTOU EN TOIS EPOURANIOIS. The ability to turn the influence of one's sources on and off in composition is a skill that would be neither easy nor particularly desirable.

Iver said:
The semantic verb "give" has three roles: A, P and B. The semantic verb 
"put/place" is very similar. It also has three roles: A, P, and L(ocation). In 
many languages the same word would be used in the same frame for these two. 
Whether the Beneficiary or Location is marked as a dative or with a 
prepositional phrase is not important.

[Yancy Smith] That is just the issue, in idiomatic phrases the semantics of verbs get skewed.

Iver said: 
The common Greek word for put/place is TIQHMI, and as far as I can see it would 
be a semitism to use DIDWMI for that semantic verb. I could not find Paul doing 
that anywhwere except in LXX quotes, but there is an interesting parallel 
between 1 Cor 12:28 with TIQHMI and Eph 4:11 with DIDWMI.
The third sense of natan above does not properly belong within the Greek DIDWMI 
as fas as I can tell, and it seems to be translation Greek when the LXX renders 
it with DIDWMI.
[Yancy Smith] Why can't translation Greek influence Paul's Greek? I would rather expect that it would. Why would one rather expect it wouln't?


> A very nice example from Egyptian papyri is given in BDAG:
> Papyrus Grecs de Lille (3rd century B.C.), in what looks to me like a legal 
> notice sort of like a power of attourney,  αὐτοῖς ἐδώκαμεν μεσίτην Δωρίωνα 
> AUTOIS EKWDAMEN MESITHN DWRIWNA "We appointed Dorion as mediator for them."
-------------------
IL: And why could this not be translated: We gave them Dorion as mediator?
[Yancy Smith] I what sense "gave"? Here the semantic mapping of the English gave just doesn't match the sense of the Egyptian Greek we see in the papyrus.
--------
> DIDWMI is used for the action of designating, choosing, electing or appointing 
> someone to an office or function. The Numbers 14:4 shows that no pronoun is 
> necessary. Paul could have said, "KAI EDWKEN KEFALHN hUPER PANTA THi 
> EKKLHSIAi" without AUTON, meaning "he chose/appointed a leader over everything 
> for the church."
------------
IL: I don't think Paul could have said that, but how can we be sure? Nor can I 
find a basis for your explanation of DIDWMI in BAGD. Does it come from somewhere 
else?
[Yancy Smith] I assume that if the construction is in Paul's Bible (Numbers 14:4) Paul could have said it. Why not?

Elizabeth mentioned #5 in BAGD. Unfortunately I don't have BDAG.
BAGD says:
"5. equivalent to TIQENAI put, place ARGURION EPI TRAPEZAN put money in the bank 
Lk 19:23; appoint someone (Num 14:4) KRITAS judges Ac 13:20; w. double acc. 
appoint someone someth. (PLille 28, II [III bc] ...) TOUS MEN APOSTOLOUS some 
(to be) apostles Eph 4:11. TINA KEFALHN make someone head 1:22. Also D. TINA EIS 
TI B 14:7 (Is 42:6).—For POIEIN, which is read by some mss., in SUMBOULION D. 
hold a consultation Mk 3:6."
[Yancy Smith] BDAG is a considerable update from BAGD. Here is definition 7:

7. appoint to special responsibility, appoint (Num 14:4) κριτάς judges Ac 13:20; w. double acc. appoint someone someth. (PLille 28, II [III B.C.] αὐτοῖς ἐδώκαμεν μεσίτην Δωρίωνα) τοὺς μὲν ἀποστόλους some (to be) apostles Eph 4:11. τινὰ κεφαλήν make someone head 1:22. Also δ. τινὰ εἴς τι B 14:7 (Is 42:6).

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (3rd ed.; Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 242.

hO QEOS DWHi hHMIN EULOLGIAS EN TWi CRISTWi
Yancy Smith




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