[B-Greek] Hebrews 1:6 and 2:5 (Was question)

Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Wed Mar 10 00:52:40 EST 2010


Hi, Yancy,

Since I am not an American or the son of an American, I had to consult my 
dictionary to see that gander and gin have other meanings than the ones I am 
used to. I also had to look up exordium to realize that Heb 1:1-2:18 is probably 
not an exordium, but I am not clear on the difference between this word and an 
introduction.

Of course I realize that a word may be used in a sense that is not the most 
usual one, BUT it is the context that will exclude the "normal" sense and force 
the reader/hearer to invoke a different sense. This is not the case in Heb 1:6. 
The normal sense of EISAGW is "bring in" and you have to argue convincingly from 
the immediate context (not another chapter) that a different sense is intended. 
You have not done so.
I did take a gander at my short version of LSJ, but I did not find "present". I 
did find "introduce", but that is simply a literal rendering from Greek to 
Latin. From the English "introduce" you can easily move to "present", but you 
cannot do that for EISAGW.
The examples you mention from Sirach 11:29 and 34 both agree with the basic 
sense of "bring in". That this might be translated as "invite" is an English 
translation issue caused by cultural differences. It still means "bring in".
It is correct that the word is not restricted to a physical movement into a 
building, house, land etc, but is also used to bring in somebody into a league, 
group, fraternity etc. In the case of Heb 1:6 it is bringing into the inhabited 
world, i.e. cause the person to become one of those inhabitants.

I looked up some of the 163 EISAGW places in the LXX and found an interesting 
one which does have the word "present":
Gen 47:7 εἰσήγαγεν δὲ Ιωσηφ Ιακωβ τὸν πατέρα αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔστησεν αὐτὸν ἐναντίον 
Φαραω
EISHGAGEN DE IWSHF IAKWB TON PATERA AUTOU KAI ESTHSEN AUTON ENANTION FARAW
Then Joseph brought in his father Jacob, and presented him before Pharaoh (NRSV)

The first step is to bring him in, and the second step is to present him before 
Pharaoh. Bringing in and presenting is not the same. ESIAGW means the first, not 
the second.

If you can find me examples of EISAGW where "bring in" cannot be the intended 
meaning, I'll be willing to reconsider.

I am aware that a few modern commentators have taken this position (from 
Schierse, 1955, I guess), and I was rather surprised that Ellingworth goes that 
way, too, but then commentators easily go into a rut, since they depend heavily 
upon each other's views. Since his book is the only one I have access to, I have 
carefully studied his argumentation. He is balanced most of the time and gives 
various options at different points:
1. PALIN? probably means the next quote/argument from Scripture in a series 
rather than "bring in again".
2. EISAGAGHi probably refers to a particular time rather than indefinite.
3. Is the time future with reference to the OT quote and past with reference to 
Hebrews or future with reference to both? He then brings in 2:9 and says that 
"the context strongly suggests the enthronement of Christ." Here Ellingworth 
seems to go against one of the most fundamental and most ignored principles of 
exegesis: Immediate context takes priority over wider context. The theme and 
purpose of Heb 1:4-14 is quite different from Heb 2:1-4 which is again different 
from 2:5-18. Heb 1:4-14 must be understood within its own context and theme. 
Bringing in 2:5 and 2:9 as conclusive evidence at this point is not warranted, 
because the themes are too different.

It is necessary to study in more detail the implication of the aorist of 
EISAGAGHi and the present of LEGEI, but I'll leave that for now. Nor will I 
repeat what I have said before about 1:7 which IMO is misunderstood by almost 
all translations.

The distinction between OIKOUMENH and KOSMOS is not contrastive but inclusive. 
Each word has a certain semantic range which can be drawn as a circle. OIKOUMENH 
has a smaller circle that is completely enclosed within the borders of KOSMOS. 
KOSMOS can refer to creation of the earth/world even before it was inhabited and 
is therefore wider in use than OIKOUMENH. If you want to compare the two, you 
could refer to Heb 10:5 which is quite similar in wording because of the LEGEI 
and the close relationship between EISERCOMAI and EISAGW.

Iver Larsen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Yancy Smith" <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 10. marts 2010 01:12
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Hebrews 1:6 and 2:5 (Was question)


> Iver,
>
> I admit that my understanding of OIKOUMENH as the "world" to come or the 
> heavenly world is a minority position and an unusual use of the word. And that 
> it has refers to that world in 2:5 with the qualifier "future." I also believe 
> that 2:5 is a back-reference to what the author is discussing in the exordium 
> 1:1-2:18 of his speech/composition. Besides Lane, this analysis has been 
> accepted and cogently argued by Craig Koester in the Anchor Bible so I am not 
> in bad company to take a position against BDAG. I referenced GH OIKOUMENH in 
> Exodus as a possible background and mentioned its relevance to Hebrews 4:1-11 
> as a picture of the world to come (which, by the way does not refer to a world 
> yet uncreated). David daSilva also argues for this meaning of OIKOUMENH in 1:6 
> saying "the author's terminology may well have been influenced by the use of 
> terms GH and OIKOUMENH in the Psalms. There are numerous psalms in which the 
> earth is shaken, but the OIKOUMENH in the Psalms is unshakable. Psalm 
> 95(96):9-10 reads προσκυνήσατε τῷ κυρίῳ ἐν αὐλῇ ἁγίᾳ αὐτοῦ, σαλευθήτω ἀπὸ 
> προσώπου αὐτοῦ πᾶσα ἡ γῆ. εἴπατε ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ῾Ο κύριος ἐβασίλευσεν, καὶ 
> γὰρ κατώρθωσεν τὴν οἰκουμένην, ἥτις οὐ σαλευθήσεται, "Do obeisance to the Lord 
> in his holy court, let all the earth (GH) shake from before him. Say among the 
> nations, "The lord became king! Indeed, he set right the world (OIKOUMENH), 
> which shall not be shaken." DaSilva remarks, "the psalmists are not consistent 
> in their application of ... terminology and no doubt considered "earth" and 
> "world" to be synonymous, [but] the author of Hebrews appears ot adopt the 
> distinctions present in [1:6; 12:26-28; cf. 1:10-12] to create differentiation 
> between the created world and the unshakable realm where the Son is enthroned 
> and believers will enter at the last "shaking" of the created order." 
> (DeSilva, _Perseverance in Gratitude: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary on the 
> Epistle "to the Hebrews," 97).
>
> Iver asked:
>
> How will you defend the unprecedented translation of EISAGW EIS with "present
> to"?
>
> [Yancy Smith]
> Well, you and I work in Bible translation and we know that, while precedent is 
> good cover, it isn't as helpful in breaking out of ruts. As far as EISAGW or 
> EISAGW EIS is concerned, I don't think "present" is outside its semantic 
> range. For example in Lysia's speech Against Nikomachos 2.3-5 (Lys. 30.2) The 
> Lysias is ginning up to make Nicky look as bad as possible: "Now, to tell how 
> Nicomachus's father was a public slave, and what were the man's own 
> occupations in his youth, *and at what age he was admitted to his clan,* would 
> be a lengthy affair: but when he became a commissioner for transcribing the 
> laws, it is common knowledge what outrages he committed on the city." The 
> relevant portion of the text is *καὶ οἷα νέος ὢν οὗτος ἐπετήδευσε, καὶ ὅσα ἔτη 
> γεγονὼς εἰς τοὺς φράτερας εἰσήχθη* KAI hOIA NEOS WN hOUTOS EPETHDEUSE, KAI 
> hOSA ETH GEGONWS EIS TOUS FRATERAS and it refers to the formal presention or 
> introduction of a child to the members of one's civic clan or tribe φρατρία as 
> an adult worthy of the franchize of free citizenry. While that is near the 
> meaning of Heb. 1:6,  more to the point are the multiple examples of EISAGW 
> EIS in the LXX about bringing someone into one's house. The example in Ben 
> Sirach (LXX) is interesting for its semantic value, Μὴ πάντα ἄνθρωπον εἴσαγε 
> εἰς τὸν οἶκόν σου· πολλὰ γὰρ τὰ ἔνεδρα τοῦ δολίου. MH PANTA ANQRWPON EISAGE 
> EIS TON OIKON SOU; POLLA GAR TA ENEDRA TOU DOLIOU. Where one's "house" is a 
> metonym for one's family. One could be forgiven for translating EISAGW here 
> "invite into your home" (NRSV) or even "present to" the members of your 
> household. See v. 34  ἐνοίκισον ἀλλότριον, καὶ διαστρέψει σε ἐν ταραχαῖς καὶ 
> ἀπαλλοτριώσει σε τῶν ἰδίων σου. ENOIKISON ALLOTRION, KAI DIASTREYEI SE EN 
> TARACAIS KAI APALLOTRIWSEI SE TWN IDIWN SOU. The reason I think that the 
> domestic shere is appropriate for the metaphor of presenting Jesus to the 
> OIKOUMENH is the domestic imagery that runs all the way through from 1:6 to 
> 2:5-11 (the thesis of the book) and 2:12-18 where Christ "presents" believers 
> to the Father as "brothers" and 3:2 where Christ is compared with Moses, the 
> faithful servant in the house OIKWi AUTOU.
> If these considerations are not sufficient to establish the appropriatness of 
> some meanings of "present" as a within the semantic range of EISAGW, taking a 
> gander at LSJ will probably do the trick.
>
> [Yancy Smith]
>> Here is the text and footnote we put in our English translation for
>> translators:
>>
>>
>> And then, when God presents his first-born Son to the world,* he says,
>>
>> “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
>>
>> [*] Word This may mean the world into which Jesus was born (see Lk. 2:1-14) 
>> or
>> it may have the same meaning as in 2:5—the world to come, to which Christ is
>> presented as king after his resurrection (see Php. 2:9-11).
>>
>
>
>
>
> Yancy Smith
> Yancy W. Smith, PhD
> World Bible Translation Center
> 4028 Daley Ave., Suite 201
> Fort Worth, TX 76180
> p 817-595-1664
> f 817580-7013
> yancy at wbtc.org
>
> Be kinder than necessary for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of 
> battle.
>
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> 




More information about the B-Greek mailing list