[B-Greek] Ephesians 1:22

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat Mar 13 06:04:15 EST 2010


On Mar 13, 2010, at 2:55 AM, John Sanders wrote:
> Much water has passed under the bridge for this thread, but if I may, I
> would like to respond anyway.  It is not that I have anything significant to
> add, but rather that going through the exercise of explaining a Greek phrase
> is in itself useful, at least for me.  I will make my presentation slightly
> different than what has been offered so far.  That is, I will begin with the
> first word in the sentence and continue in a linear fashion, attempting to
> replicate how I attempt to read Greek.

What a splendid little (well, relatively so) bit of exegesis! What I partciularly 
love about your method is your determination to make sense of each word in
its serial order of presentation in the text, and then to coordinate all that you
learn from words A and B with what comes in word C.

I once had a notion of a software program that would present words in a
text cumulatively in successive screens so that each screen
	1. word A
	2. word A + word B
	3. word A + word B + word C
would require processing the signals sent in the new word as they contribute
to meaning proposed in the previous word(s). while it's true that no word
by itself constitutes a whole proposition, it is true, I think, that the sequence
of words is deliberate and important.


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

> 
> 
> 
> The sentence: ...AUTON EDWKEN KEFALHN hUPER PANTA THi EKKLHSIAi.
> 
> 
> 
> AUTON is an ANTWUMIAI (antonym) referencing back to INSOU (see verse 17).  I
> see two roles that it plays in this phrase.  One is the role as topic (also
> referred to as theme, some may call this old information others perhaps that
> it is emphatic).  Japanese indicates the topic with a grammatical particle,
> Greek and English do not (digression-well maybe, I suspect that the post
> positive particles in a general sense indicate topic, for instance, the
> particle DE indicates topic in the sense that the preceding word or phrase
> is the topic on which the discourse is being continued with).  It is just
> position that indicates it being topic, if a topic is indicated at all.  But
> Greek does mark grammatically the PTWSIS (case).  Here, ANTON is in the
> AITIATIKH PTWSIS (accusative case).  We have some general expectations of
> what to expect from this case, the specific we will not know until the rest
> of the phrase is given, but we do have a general expectation.
> 
> 
> 
> This brings us to the next word, EDWKEN.  Before we continue, we should
> spend some time with this word.  DOUNAI, DIDONAI (to give, to be giving) has
> some peculiarities that are not shared by most other verbs.  Let me
> reference H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar, Textkit edition, section 1450a.  “The
> dative derives its name (ἡ δοτικη πτῶσις (H DOTIKH PTWSIS), casus datiuus)
> from the use with διδόναι (DIDONAI) (1469).
> 
> 
> 
> Section 1469 reads in part, “Many verbs take the dative as the indirect
> object together with an accusative as the direct object.”
> 
> 
> 
> As Elizabeth has pointed out, BDAG indicates that two nouns in AITIATIKH
> PTWSIS (accusative case) are possible.  (I would venture that one of these
> two nouns will represent specific and the other a general or class, i.e., he
> appointed her ambassador, I gave the photo as a memento,  she gave the money
> as a donation, etc.).  One can potentially expect three complements to the
> verb DOUNAI, DIDONAI: two in AITIATIKH PTWSIS and one in DOTIKH PTWSIS.
> 
> 
> 
> Returning back to the analysis, we have EDWKEN which gives us the subject,
> AUTOS who is DOUNAI the object, AUTON.  This is sufficient information to
> answer the question TINA EDWKEN?
> 
> 
> 
> The next word is KEFALHN.  This is also in the AITIATIKH PTWSIS.  We should
> not be surprised since we know that DOUNAI, DIDONAI can take two objects in
> the AITIATIKH PTWSIS.  hUPER PANTA construes with KEFALHN.  This answers the
> question TI EDWKEN?
> 
> 
> 
> DOTIKH PTWSIS can usually be thought of as consisting three general
> subgroups, one set of prepositions will identify the locative subgroup,
> another set of prepositions the instrumentative subgroup, and no
> prepositions indicating the “true dative”, which some will call the indirect
> object and others the recipient (in koine Greek).  Since there is no
> preposition with THi EKKLHSIAi and DOUNAI can potentially have a DOTIKH
> PTWSIS, we can construe this as the third and DOTIKH complement to EDWKEN.
> This answers the question TINI EDWKEN?
> 
> 
> 
> The verb DOUNAI, DIDONAI should, I think, be explained a little more
> carefully than other verbs because of its potential three complements, that
> is there are three dimensions, TINA, TI, and TINI that can identify what is
> the result of DOUNAI, DIDONAI.  This sentence is a beautiful sentence in
> that regard, that is it has all three potential complements.
> 
> 
> 
> John Sanders
> 
> Suzhou, China
> 
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:29 AM, <rhutchin at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> We read;
>> 
>> ...KAI AUTON EDWKEN KEFALHN hUPER PANTA THi EKKLHSIAi.
>> 
>> How do the parts of this fit together?
>> 
>> Does KEFALHN hUPER PANTA modify AUTON or is it the object of EDWKEN?
>> 
>> What is the purpose for THi EKKLHSIAi?  Is it the object of EDWKEN?
>> 
>> What idea is the writer trying to convey to the reader?  The KJV
>> translators added language to try to sort out what is being said but I get
>> the impression that they were not sure what to do with THi EKKLHSIAi.
>> 
>> Roger Hutchinson







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