[B-Greek] 1Cor. 15:50 SARX KAI hAIMA, 1 Jn 4:2 SARKI
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat Mar 13 06:59:20 EST 2010
As Elizabeth would most graciously say:
Thank you, Iver.
I'll add to that my appreciation for offering a fullly-nuanced response to a question
that struck me at the outset as a bit unfocused -- and I myself responded to that in
an unfocused and inept manner which I regret.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:33 PM, Iver Larsen wrote:
> It may be helpful to focus on the combined idiom SARX KAI hAIMA. Even in my
> Webster's dictionary "flesh and blood" has its own entry, separate from "flesh".
> The English dictionary definition is "corporeal nature as composed of flesh and
> blood". That seems pretty close to the meaning of the Greek idiom. I don't think
> this idiom has much to do with Paul's theological usage of SARX in contexts
> where it is contrasted to PENUMA, nor is the idiom specific to Paul. A too
> narrow focus on individual words often lead us to ignore the contribution that
> context gives to the meaning of a text.
>
> We find the idiom in places like
> Mat 16:17 σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα οὐκ ἀπεκάλυψέν σοι ἀλλ᾽ ὁ πατήρ μου ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς
> SARX KAI hAIMA OUK APEKALUYEN SOI ALL' hO PATHR MOU hO EN TOIS OURANOIS
>
> This revelation did not come to you from a human being, but from my heavenly
> Father.
>
> Gal 1:16 οὐ προσανεθέμην σαρκὶ καὶ αἵματι
> OU PROSANEQEMHN SARKI KAI hAIMATI
> I did not bring my queries to a human being.
>
> There is nothing negative or "unspiritual" about "flesh and blood" here. It is
> just another human being of flesh and blood. It may be contrasted to the Holy
> Spirit from whom Paul sought guidance in the desert, but it is not a contrast in
> a negative sense, but simply in a corporeal sense.
>
> Eph 6:12 ὅτι οὐκ ἔστιν ἡμῖν ἡ πάλη πρὸς αἷμα καὶ σάρκα
> hOTI OUK ESTIN hHMIN hH PALH PROS hAIMA KAI SARKA
> that the struggle we have is not directed towards human beings
>
> Heb 2:14 ἐπεὶ οὖν τὰ παιδία κεκοινώνηκεν αἵματος καὶ σαρκός, καὶ αὐτὸς
> παραπλησίως μετέσχεν τῶν αὐτῶν
> EPEI OUN TA PAIDIA KEKOINWNHKEN hAIMATOS KAI SARKOS, KAI AUTOS PARAPLHSIWS
> METESCEN TWN AUTWN
> so, since the "children" are corporeal/human beings, he, too, likewise, shared
> in that same corporeal state.
>
> Greek, unlike English, is flexible enough to be able to reverse the order to
> "blood and flesh" without changing the meaning of the idiom.
>
> The phrase SARX KAI OSTEA is used in Luke 24:39 in more or less the same
> meaning, but here the context suggests the difference between someone who
> appears like a ghost and therefore cannot be seen and touched, whereas Jesus in
> his resurrected body can be seen and touched. Neither expression in and of
> themselves indicate anything about lack of permanence or mortality. That is
> brought to the context by our experience of human beings.
>
> Now, Webster gives a second sense of "flesh and blood": near kindred - used
> chiefly in the phrase "one's own flesh and blood". This sense is expressed in
> the LXX by SARX KAI OSTOUN, but is different from how the idiom is used in Luke
> 24 as can be seen from the lack of personal pronouns.
>
> SARX alone can also be used to refer to a human being by way of metonymy, and
> this is how it is used by John. That Paul extends its usage to a human way of
> thinking as opposed to a spiritual or Godly way of thinking is a matter of
> context. It is a very natural extension and it is already seen in Matt 26:41:
>
> τὸ μὲν πνεῦμα πρόθυμον ἡ δὲ σὰρξ ἀσθενής
> TO MEN PNEUMA PROQUMON, hH DE SARX ASQENHS
> While the spirit (or spiritual side) is ready/eager (to do the right thing), the
> human side is weak.
>
> Iver Larsen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
> To: <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>; "B-Greek Lists"
> <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; "Vasileios Tsialas" <tsialas78 at hotmail.com>
> Sent: 13. marts 2010 03:52
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Cor. 15:50 SARX KAI hAIMA, 1 Jn 4:2 SARKI
>
>
>> Paul believes that at the Second Coming of Jesus, the
>> flesh of believers will be changed into a SWMA PNEUMATIKON.
>> (ALLAGHSOMEQA 1 Cor 15:51) Jesus' flesh has already been
>> so changed. John and Luke probably
>> believe the same thing, but it appears that, unlike Paul, Luke (24:39) and
>> possibly John (1 Jn 4:2?) still use the word SARX for this glorified
>> body. I would not call it a contradiction, but just that Paul
>> has given it more thought, and chooses not to call the changed
>> flesh SARX. John and Luke would probably tell you it is not
>> the same kind of flesh, which is basically what Paul says in
>> 1 Cor 15.
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