[B-Greek] 3rd edition of BDAG (was 1 Corinthians 12:27)
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Mon Mar 15 09:09:16 EDT 2010
On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:27 AM, Mark Lightman wrote:
> Peter wrote:
>
> <Does anyone know where to get a good deal on
> "English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other
> Early Christian Literature 3rd." I could see a ton of
> people selling the 2nd Ed for cheap, but I could find
> the third for under $120. I noticed there are more
> pages in the 3rd ED than the 2nd what did they add?>
>
> So then Sarah writes:
>
> <Compared to the earlier editions, the third
> edition is (of course) updated, but on a practical
> note, it is SOOO much
> easier to read with font changes, bolding where
> necessary, etc., it is well
> worth the investment. I think one wag on this list
> (sorry, can't remember
> who but it probably was Mark Lightman) said
> he would recommend selling your first-born if
> necessary to get that book.>
>
> Which leads George to write:
>
> <I claim responsibility for that remark.>
>
> Hi, Peter,
>
> What I said on this issue is that if I were in the market
> for a lexicon, I would keep my kids and sell my MOTHER.
He says that -- but he's the one who's been talking about the
Jewish mother. Whether he's likely to go through with such a
sale you can calculate for yourself -- and then talk about how
tastes differ.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> With the money from the sale, I would buy neither a BAG nor
> a BDAG second OR a third editon, but a used copy of
> Thayer's lexicon, which you can get for about $15.00.
> As a practical matter, Thayer is just as good as Bauer.
> The difference between reading the Greek New Testament
> with Thayer and reading it with BDAG is the difference between
> eating cheesecake with a fork and eating it with a spoon.
> The difference between BDAG 2 and BDAG 3 is the difference
> between eating cheescake with a fork and eating it with a
> really nice fork.
>
> Lexicons are over-rated. With all the money I would save,
> I would buy actual TEXTS that I could READ. I would buy
> a Reader's Edition of the Greek New Testament so that I
> would not HAVE to look up words. And I would buy this,
> just published last year.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/098430651X/ref=s9_simi_gw_p14_t2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=169NJXBDBWH2K550ME72&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
>
> This is a wonderful new edition of Plato's Symposium by Geoffrey
> Steadman. with a big, clear readable font and all the rare vocab
> glossed on facing pages. Steadman says in his preface:
>
> "One of the virtues of this commentary is that it eliminates time-
> consuming dictionary work. While there are certainly occasions
> where a dictionary is absolutely necessary for developing a nuanced
> reading of the Greek, in most instances any advantage that may
> come from looking up a word and exploring alternative meanings
> is outweighed by the time and effort spent in the process. Many
> continue to defend this practice, but I am convinced that such work
> has little pedagogical value for intermediate level students and that
> the time saved by avoiding such drudgery can be better spent
> reading more Greek, reviewing morphology, learning core vocabulary,
> or reading secondary literature." (p.vi)
>
> Precisely. On the nose. I am reading Steadmans's Symposium
> right now, and I cannot tell you how much of a pleasure it is to
> read great Greek literature without looking up words in ANY
> dictionary, and without having to flip back to a glossary at the
> end of the book. (although Steadman does include one of
> these for really common words.) Everything is in one book,
> on one page, so you can just READ READ READ.
>
> I think the fact that
> we have raised the status of BDAG 3 almost into some sort
> of Divine Text is part of the problem with the way we read the
> Greek NT. This may be what Carl means by "decoding."
> We focus on each individual word, and we do a "word study"
> by looking at the most authoritative lexicon we can. Instead,
> I think we should try to read as much Greek as possible,
> in ways that are as easy as possible. Then we get a
> FEEL for what a Greek word means.
>
> Actually, if I sold my mother, I would buy neither a BDAG 3
> ($150.00) nor a Thayer ($18.00) but I would buy an
> Intermediate Liddel and Scott (so I could also read
> Homer and the LXX) and then I would buy
> Randall Buth or Christophe Rico's books/audios
> and I would try to learn Greek as a living language.
> With my mother out of the house, without her
> constant nagging, I would also have more
> TIME to read and listen to and speak more
> Greek, instead of looking through lexicons.
>
> I have a quick question for Sarah, Carl and George.
> You guys are all great writers in English and avid
> readers in English, but when is the last time you
> thought about getting a new, or a different edition,
> of an ENGLISH dictionary? This is just a rhetorical
> question. No need to answer, ye Nay-Thayers.
>
> Of course, Peter, if money is not an issue for
> you, you should buy BDAG 3. Sarah is correct that
> the improvements are mostly cosmetic. The
> later edition is much easier on the eye. But if
> money is not an issue for you, maybe YOU
> could take my mother in.
>
> One final point. You probably are thinking, how
> Markos, could you even consider selling your
> mother, the woman who suffered so much for
> you and gave you life. Well, trust me, no matter
> to whom I sold my mother, within a few days
> they would bring her back. They would pay
> ME to take her off their hands. I have actually
> sent her, along with a free copy of Thayer, to
> George many times. But he keeps sending both
> of them back. :)
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