[B-Greek] 3rd edition of BDAG (was 1 Corinthians 12:27)

yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Mon Mar 15 10:27:33 EDT 2010


In the areas of Hellenistic social and historical background that impact lexicography, Thayer is wandering around in the dark. One great example of the superiority of BDAG to Thayer is to compare the articles on σκηνοποιός SKHNOPOIOS in the two volumes.

Yancy Smith, PhD
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
yancy at wbtc.com
5636 Wedgworth Road
Fort Worth, TX 76133
817-361-7565






On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:15 AM, George F Somsel wrote:

> Heresy alert !  DON'T GET THAYER.
>  george
> gfsomsel 
> 
> 
> … search for truth, hear truth, 
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
> defend the truth till death.
> 
> 
> - Jan Hus
> _________ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
> To: Sarah Madden <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>; Peter Schrock <peter at glorifyinghim.com>; George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 5:27:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 3rd edition of BDAG (was 1 Corinthians 12:27)
> 
> 
> Peter wrote:
> 
> <Does anyone know where to get a good deal on 
> "English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other
>  Early Christian Literature 3rd."  I could see a ton of
>  people selling the 2nd Ed for cheap, but I could find
>  the third for under $120.  I noticed there are more
>  pages in the 3rd ED than the 2nd what did they add?>
> 
> So then Sarah writes:
> 
> <Compared to the earlier editions, the third
> edition is (of course) updated, but on a practical
>  note, it is SOOO much
> easier to read with font changes, bolding where
>  necessary, etc., it is well
> worth the investment. I think one wag on this list 
> (sorry, can't remember
>  who but it probably was Mark Lightman) said
> he would recommend selling your first-born if
>  necessary to get that book.>
> 
> Which leads George to write:
> 
> <I claim responsibility for that remark.>
> 
> Hi, Peter,
> 
> What I said on this issue is that if I were in the market
> for a lexicon, I would keep my kids and sell my MOTHER.
> With the money from the sale, I would buy neither a BAG nor
> a BDAG second OR a third editon, but a used copy of
> Thayer's lexicon, which you can get for about $15.00.
> As a practical matter, Thayer is just as good as Bauer.
> The difference between reading the Greek New Testament
> with Thayer and reading it with BDAG is the difference between
> eating cheesecake with a fork and eating it with a spoon.
> The difference between BDAG 2 and BDAG 3 is the difference
> between eating cheescake with a fork and eating it with a
> really nice fork.
> 
> Lexicons are over-rated.  With all the money I would save,
> I would buy actual TEXTS that I could READ. I would buy
> a Reader's Edition of the Greek New Testament so that I
> would not HAVE to look up words.  And I would buy this,
> just published last year.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/098430651X/ref=s9_simi_gw_p14_t2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=169NJXBDBWH2K550ME72&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
> 
> This is a wonderful new edition of Plato's Symposium by Geoffrey
> Steadman. with a big, clear readable font and all the rare vocab
> glossed on facing pages.  Steadman says in his preface:
> 
> "One of the virtues of this commentary is that it eliminates time-
> consuming dictionary work.  While there are certainly occasions
> where a dictionary is absolutely necessary for developing a nuanced
> reading of the Greek, in most instances any advantage that may
> come from looking up a word and exploring alternative meanings
> is outweighed by the time and effort spent in the process.  Many
> continue to defend this practice, but I am convinced that such work
> has little pedagogical value for intermediate level students and that
> the time saved by avoiding such drudgery can be better spent
> reading more Greek, reviewing morphology, learning core vocabulary,
> or reading secondary literature." (p.vi)
> 
> Precisely.  On the nose. I am reading Steadmans's Symposium
> right now, and I cannot tell you how much of a pleasure it is to
> read great Greek literature without looking up words in ANY 
> dictionary, and without having to flip back to a glossary at the
> end of the book.  (although Steadman does include one of
> these for really common words.)  Everything is in one book,
> on one page, so you can just READ READ READ.
> 
> I think the fact that
> we have raised the status of BDAG 3 almost into some sort
> of Divine Text is part of the problem with the way we read the
> Greek NT.  This may be what Carl means by "decoding."
> We focus on each individual word, and we do a "word study"
> by looking at the most authoritative lexicon we can.  Instead,
> I think we should try to read as much Greek as possible,
> in ways that are as easy as possible.  Then we get a 
> FEEL for what a Greek word means.
> 
> Actually, if I sold my mother, I would buy neither a BDAG 3
> ($150.00) nor a Thayer ($18.00) but I would buy an
> Intermediate Liddel and Scott (so I could also read
> Homer and the LXX) and then I would buy
> Randall Buth or Christophe Rico's books/audios
> and I would try to learn Greek as a living language.
> With my mother out of the house, without her
> constant nagging, I would also have more
> TIME to read and listen to and speak more
> Greek, instead of looking through lexicons.
> 
> I have a quick question for Sarah, Carl and George.
> You guys are all great writers in English and avid 
> readers in English, but when is the last time you
> thought about getting a new, or a different edition,
> of an ENGLISH dictionary?  This is just a rhetorical
> question. No need to answer, ye Nay-Thayers.
> 
> Of course, Peter, if money is not an issue for
> you, you should buy BDAG 3.  Sarah is correct that
> the improvements are mostly cosmetic.  The
> later edition is much easier on the eye. But if
> money is not an issue for you, maybe YOU
> could take my mother in.
> 
> One final point.  You probably are thinking, how
> Markos, could you even consider selling your
> mother, the woman who suffered so much for
> you and gave you life.  Well, trust me, no matter
> to whom I sold my mother, within a few days
> they would bring her back.  They would pay
> ME to take her off their hands.  I have actually
> sent her, along with a free copy of Thayer, to
> George many times.  But he keeps sending both
> of them back.  :)
> 
> 
> Mark L
> Φωσφορος
> 
> 
> Mark L
> 
> 
> FWSFOROS MARKOS
> 
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 3rd edition of BDAG (was 1 Corinthians 12:27)
>> To: "Sarah Madden" <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>, "Peter Schrock" <peter at glorifyinghim.com>
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 4:30 AM
>> 
>> 
>> I claim responsibility for that remark.
>>  george
>> gfsomsel 
>> 
>> 
>> … search for truth, hear truth, 
>> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
>> defend the truth till death.
>> 
>> 
>> - Jan Hus
>> _________ 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Sarah Madden <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>
>> To: Peter Schrock <peter at glorifyinghim.com>
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 3:17:34 AM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] 3rd edition of BDAG (was 1 Corinthians 12:27)
>> 
>> Peter --
>> You asked why the 3rd edition of BDAG ("English Lexicon of the New Testament
>> and Other Early Christian Literature 3rd) is so expensive compared to
>> earlier editions that can be had at bargain prices. This is the apparent
>> reason: market economics. Compared to the earlier editions, the third
>> edition is (of course) updated, but on a practical note, it is SOOO much
>> easier to read with font changes, bolding where necessary, etc., it is well
>> worth the investment. Different entries under a single word are bolded,
>> making it easier to scan the page to find what you need. I think one wag on
>> this list (sorry, can'r remember who but it probably was Mark Lightman) said
>> he would recommend selling your first-born if necessary to get that book.
>> Just a musing ....
>> 
>> 
>> Sarah ><>
>> aka Hawkeye Pierce
>> Maryland
>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:19 AM, Peter Schrock <peter at glorifyinghim.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> Does anyone know where to get a good deal on "English Lexicon of the New
>>> Testament and Other Early Christian Literature 3rd."  I could see a ton of
>>> people selling the 2nd Ed for cheap, but I could find the third for under
>>> $120.  I noticed there are more pages in the 3rd ED than the 2nd what did
>>> they add?
>>> 
>>> 
>> ---
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>>       
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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