[B-Greek] Walking on Water (Mk 6:49)

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 19 15:23:58 EDT 2010


Richard wrote:
 
<My friend is a pretty bright fellow normally and yet he insists that he
knows of a reputable source of Greek scholarship that upholds this notion of
Jesus "walking by the sea" in Mark's gospel. So now let me ask this... Does
anyone know of anywhere in Greek literature where "PERIPATWN EPI TH
THALASSH" is used in this way or could be legitimately translated in this
way or where he may have gotten this idea otherwise?>
 
Hi, Richard,
 
Maybe we do and maybe we don't, but that is beside the point.
EPI has such a wide semantic range that I would not
be surprised if it DOES mean this somewhere. Ex 14:2 has
στρατοπεδευσεις επι της θαλασσης  STRATOPEDEUSEIS
EPI THS QALASSHS "and you shall make your camp by the
sea." EPI plus the gen here certainly does not mean "upon."
But this has nothing, or almost nothing, to do with your friend's
theory.  KATAFILEW ("I kiss") often in Homer means "I entertain,"
"I give a stranger a meal and a hot bath," but the chance that it
means this in Mark 14:45 ("and Judas kissed Him") is, on a scale
of 1 to 2, 1 being impossible and 2 being certain, a little less than
zero.  It cannot mean this, not because the word KATAFILEW
cannot mean this, but because the text would make no sense
read this way.  This was, I think, Andrew's point.  If something makes
no sense in English it cannot make any sense in Greek.  It is possible
that something that means XYZ in English can mean XYZ.1 in 
Greek, but if something means "he works wonders" in English,
it cannot mean "chicken salad" in Greek.  Not that you
would necessary know this from reading the posts on
B-Greek.  A JOKE A JOKE THAT WAS A JOKE.
 
I don't mean to pick on you or your friend.  He sounds like a 
nice guy.  You should keep lots of friends who see things 
differently than you do it.  But what bothers me about this
is that it  reflects  what I call "the History Channel
View of History."  This is the idea that a bizarre, alternative
history can be drawn up if we just go back to "the original
Greek sources" or "the authentic early manuscripts" or
"the genuine clay tablets."  Many people even in the Church
seem to think that the New Testament says something 
fundamentally different in Greek than it does in English,
that all they have is a “translation of a translation.”
Maybe this is not where your friend is coming from, but
I too would like to know where he gets this.  Maybe the
argument is more subtle, than in some "early form"
of the GNT the text meant this and all we have is
a translation of a translation and next up on A & E,
was Jesus really an Insurance Salesman?--new light from
"the Original Ancient Early Sources." 
 
People who know Greek, should, if nothing else,
tell people why walking on water means walking on
water and why this has nothing to do with Greek.
 
But it is a good question, and I’m glad you brought it
up. And that book something mentioned,
“The Word” by Irving Wallace, is a good read.  No joke. 

Mark L


FWSFOROS MARKOS

--- On Thu, 3/4/10, Richard Lindeman <oblchurch at msn.com> wrote:


From: Richard Lindeman <oblchurch at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Walking on Water
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Thursday, March 4, 2010, 3:32 PM


Mark & George:

Thanks for your comments.  This is helpful as it represents my own
viewpoint. However, as much as I disagree with my friend, I¹m not sure that
I would give this
entirely a zero. Perhaps a 0.1   - after all, it is usage that determines
language and not the other way around isn¹t it?

Suppose for example, that in the midst of writing his gospel St. Mark was
struck by a rock and dazed for only a moment. And in that moment he suddenly
waxed poetic, recalling an old Greek poem entitled ³PERIPATWN EPI TH
THALASSH² in which the poet uses this phrase to express the thought of
³Walking by the sea².

My friend is a pretty bright fellow normally and yet he insists that he
knows of a reputable source of Greek scholarship that upholds this notion of
Jesus ³walking by the sea² in Mark¹s gospel. So now let me ask this... Does
anyone know of anywhere in Greek literature where ³PERIPATWN EPI TH
THALASSH² is used in this way or could be legitimately translated in this
way or where he may have gotten this idea otherwise?

Thanks!

Rich Lindeman


On 3/4/10 1:43 PM, "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have a slightly different take on this than George does.
> On a scale of 1 to 1000, 1 being not even theoretically possible
> under any imagined scenario, and 1000 being metaphysical
> certitude, I would give this a zero.
> 
> Mark L
> 

---
B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
B-Greek mailing list
B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek



      


More information about the B-Greek mailing list