[B-Greek] Walking on Water (Mk 6:49)
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 20 01:12:26 EDT 2010
It took me a while to locate that particular volume so I could read the article. It seems that the argumentation is rather deficient. While he notes that in certain cases ghosts were thought to be limited by water, it doesn't seem to establish that it was thus in all cases. Ghosts appear to be conceived as being limited much as humans are by oceans and streams. While water in one citation appears to be able in one case to kill a ghost (sic !) in the play by Apuleus, burial at sea seems to be overcome by the same method as would be the case if the departed had been buried on land but on the other side of water, namely, by calling the dead three times which would indicate that water would not therefore be deemed fatal to the shade. The point of the article seems to be that Jesus is depicted as divine, which may well be the case; but that Mark is constructing a farce on the order of Apuleus is by no means evident. Whether the disciples were
to be considered to be credulous is not particularly dependent upon whether the ancients thought water was particularly inimicable to ghosts. I'm not at all accepting of a rule that the ancients considered water to be a kind of garlic or a cross to vampires (for anyone credulous enough to accept their existence). As to whether the word φάντασμα FANTASMA by itself could signify a god is similarly not established since it would appear that when φάντασμα FANTASMA is used to signify some divine being it does not appear by itself but in combination with δαίμονος DAIMONOS so that φάντασμα FANTASMA would seem to signify an apparition which may or may not be divine depending upon whether it is otherwise qualified.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
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From: Yancy Smith <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: bGreek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Fri, March 19, 2010 2:09:30 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Walking on Water (Mk 6:49)
Mediterranean peoples seem to have known that ghosts couldn’t walk on water, they sink in water. But gods could walk on water. So, when the disciples say Jesus is a ghost, the audience would see to what great extent they were going to avoid the obvious conclusion that Jesus is divine. This point was masterfully brought out in a recent article by Jason Robert Combs, “A Ghost on the Water? Understanding an Absurdity in Mark 6:49-50” JBL 127.2 (2008): 345-58. So, the exclamation by the disciples would have been a further humorous demonstration of obtuseness. They just couldn't get the point about who Jesus really was and were willing to accept the most preposterous conclusions to avoid the obvious.
Yancy Smith
Yancy W. Smith, PhD
World Bible Translation Center
4028 Daley Ave., Suite 201
Fort Worth, TX 76180
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yancy at wbtc.org
Be kinder than necessary for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of George F Somsel
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:13 PM
To: theomann at comcast.net; bGreek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Walking on Water (Mk 6:49)
No, I don't think you missed a thing. Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that he was supposedly walking "by the sea", why would this have caused the disciples to think that he was an "apparition" or "ghost"? "Walking by the sea" certainly gives no reason for surprise.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
________________________________
From: "theomann at comcast.net" <theomann at comcast.net>
To: bGreek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Fri, March 19, 2010 12:56:16 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Walking on Water (Mk 6:49)
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Walking on Water (Mk 6:49)
Richard wrote:
<My friend is a pretty bright fellow normally and yet he insists that he
knows of a reputable source of Greek scholarship that upholds this notion of
Jesus "walking by the sea" in Mark's gospel. So now let me ask this... Does
anyone know of anywhere in Greek literature where "PERIPATWN EPI TH
THALASSH" is used in this way or could be legitimately translated in this
way or where he may have gotten this idea otherwise?>
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I don't know if I'm on the same page as you, but is the question whether or not Jesus walked on water? If so, doesn't the context pretty much dictate that He did? Verse 47 says that the disciples were in a boat in the middle of the sea (lake), verse 48 says that Jesus went out to them and verse 51 says that He climbed into the boat with them. That Jesus walked on the water in order to reach them seems to be the natural conclusion.
Sorry if I've misunderstood something.
Ted
Theodore H. Mann
theomann at comcast.net
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