[B-Greek] when syntax doesn't get you there -- Eph 4:9b

Rod Rogers rngrogers at embarqmail.com
Sun Mar 28 22:48:31 EDT 2010


Cryptic or whatever, I'm still trying to 
decide where exactly your objections lie. Are 
you advocating an understanding of 
Christ/Spirit descending at Pentecost in 
verse 9? If not I am at a complete loss. 
Also, were you thinking of Sandy, TX or more 
in the lines of 3909 Swiss Ave, Dallas, TX?

rod rogers
bargersvile, in






----- Original Message ----- 
From: Elizabeth Kline
To: greek B-Greek
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:42 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] when syntax doesn't get 
you there -- Eph 4:9b


Eph. 4:8 διὸ λέγει· ἀναβὰς εἰς ὕψος 
ᾐχμαλώτευσεν αἰχμαλωσίαν, ἔδωκεν δόματα τοῖς 
ἀνθρώποις.  9 τὸ δὲ ἀνέβη τί ἐστιν, εἰ μὴ ὅτι 
καὶ κατέβη εἰς τὰ κατώτερα [μέρη] τῆς γῆς;

Eph. 4:8 DIO LEGEI· ANABAS EIS hUYOS 
HiCMALWTEUSEN AICMALWSIAN, EDWKEN DOMATA TOIS 
ANQRWPOIS.  9 TO DE ANEBH TI ESTIN, EI MH 
hOTI KAI KATEBH EIS TA KATWTERA [MERH] THS 
GHS;

H. Hoehner (Ephesians Baker 2002, p533ff) 
states that the central exegetical problem in 
Eph 4:9b is "identifying the syntactical 
relationship of the genitival phrase THS 
GHS." In my opinion, this is a prime example 
of what is wrong with the kind Greek exegesis 
they teach in Texas (and almost everywhere 
else). The idea that we can get to the root 
of this exegetical problem by focusing our 
attention on THS GHS and the genitive case is 
not really old fashion, it is just wrong. It 
was always wrong. The best Greek expositors 
of previous centuries new better than that. 
N.B. Hoehner does breifly review the 
alterative readings. But the suggestion that 
THS GHS and the genitive case are the key to 
the problem ... he cites Wallace in support 
... I leave that one to George Somsel :-)

Twenty some years ago,  C.E. Arnold[1] 
approached this text by constructing a 
semantic framework (he didn't call it that) 
for understanding KATEBH EIS TA KATWTERA 
[MERH] THS GHS. He ends up with the 
traditional reading. IMO, Arnold's approach 
is much better. You don't have to agree with 
his result, the issue is one of methodology.


Elizabeth Kline


[1] C.E. Arnold
EPHESIANS POWER ANDMAGIC. By Clinton E. 
Arnold pp. 57-58
 Google search string for C.E. Arnold "this 
papyrus preserves a record"

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