[B-Greek] Jn.4:23,24

Oun Kwon kwonbbl at gmail.com
Fri May 14 01:39:03 EDT 2010


On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert –
>
> PNEUMA hO QEOS, KAI TOUS PROSKUNOUNTAS AUTON EN PNEUMATI KAI ALHQEIAi DEI PROSKUNEIN. JOH 4:24
>
> I would also agree with Mark L. that both uses are being implied – that is *in spirit,* and *with spirit.* I believe, in this case, John’s anarthrous construction is significant. In fact, I think this is a good example as to why sometimes, (not all the time), an anarthrous noun can be important. I believe John is emphasizing the *spirital* nature of PNEUMA (I’m coining a new word)  and not the mere identity of the Holy Spirit or the human spirit.
> In other words, John is saying worship by all that is *spirit,* or worship by that which is essentially spirit. Worship by the Holy Spirit. Worship by (with) your human spirit, (as contrasted with the *physical* worship of the temple).  As Mark suggested, when the human spirit and not the physical body becomes the primary instrument of worship, it does not matter whether you are in a synagogue (as in the case of Jesus), or a mountain top (with Mark in Colorado). Because of this I would prefer worship *by the spirit.*
>
>
> Blue Harris
>
>

Thanks Blue on this,

Now I can feel 'EN' very well in/by myself.

My one cent to add: (as we can NOT say 'God is a spirit', as in KJV)

       Jn 4:24 What spirit is, the [true] God is.

as I like to read 1Jn 4:8  hOTI hO QEOS AGAPH ESTIN also as 'what love
is, God is'. Hope this way of understanding does not disservice to
what the Greek phrase means.

Speaking of  your 'spirital', I also like this neologism very much.

It is rather neutral and technical compared to the much overused
word 'spiritual' which smacks of 'of spirituality' 'of spiritual
style', etc, rather than equivalent to 'of spirit'. (Compare different
nuance of 'natural' vs. 'of nature'.)

This reminds me another word I love - 'soulical' (as adjective form of
'soul'). The usual English word 'soulish', which rhymes with 'gholish',
suggests nothing more to me than 'alike soul', not really 'of soul'
(compared 'bluish' to 'blue').

I found this word as a gloss (in KIT Interlinear). E.g. in 1Co 15:14
SPEIRETAI SWMA YUCIKON, EGEIRETAI SWMA PNEUMATIKON
- "sown a *soulical* body and raised up in a *spiritual* body".
Most renders it as 'physical body', which really means 'somatic body'
in English, thus completely fails to bring the contrast btw 'soul' vs.
'spirit.
Now we can have a double neologism (I have not check them in OED yet)
on this - "sown in a soulical body and raised up in a spirital body"!
I tend to like it; it sounds pretty scholarly to boot ;-)

Oun Kwon.



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