[B-Greek] Hellas speak
Mark Lightman
lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Wed May 19 15:10:39 EDT 2010
Blue wrote that Markos wrote that Shakespeare wrote:
<"Mad call I it, for, to define true madness,
What is't but to be nothing else but mad?" (Hamlet II,ii, 93ff)>
Just a point of clarification. I am not saying that what Hoyle writes is
madness. I am comparing Hoyle to Polonius in that both come up
with definitions of things that don't provide any new information.
My dictionary defines "tautology" as "a needless repetition of the same
sense in different words." But of course as I made clear in my response
to John, "needless to whom?" And what new information do any of MY
posts ever provide?
Actually, my critique of Hoyle is a bit unfair. Besides tautologies, he also
provides terms like "Hearer Old" and "salient" that are so subjective that
his resultant conclusions are just as true as one wants them to be.
But really I come not to bury Hoyle but to praise Shakespeare. Remember
that the Bard wrote on the hinge between Pre-Modern and Modern Thought,
and his critiques of what would become the Modern University are astonishingly
prescient. What Hamlet said about himself could well sum up my ad nauseum about
Analysis and Fluency: "Thus the native hue of resolution is sickl'd over with the pale
cast of thought."
But enough people whom I respect respect Hoyle that I bet his e-book is better
than it appears to me. Let us know, Blue, what you think of it.
Mark L
p.s. what do YOU think about barbeque potato chips?
FWSFOROS MARKOS
________________________________
From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: Leonard Isaksson <leonardo1orchardcity at mac.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 8:47:18 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Hellas speak
Hi Leonard,
You wrote: I realise that this has been covered before, however, since I don't
have the responses at my fingertips, may I ask the body what may be
your estimate of modern Greek learning CDs, programmes, etc, such as
the Pimsleur, which people seem to like for learning pronunciation, or
any other courses. I see the Rosetta Stone, which covers both reading
and writing as well as speaking is regarded well too.>
Just curious - Did you ever get any responses to your question, or have you come to any conclusions yourself?
Also in response to what Mark wrote about what Iver wrote -
Iver wrote (quoting Hoyle)
<The Greek article with a noun marks that the referent is Hearer-old, which may
be either Discourse-old, or Discourse-new and part of an open scenario. Lack of the article
with a noun marks that the referent is salient, which may be either Discourse-new and
Hearer-new (so naturally salient), or Hearer-old but marked as salient due to some higher
discourse function, such as marking clause-level focus, marking theme at higher levels of
discourse, or highlighting interpersonal relations.>
And in response to what Meta-Linguist Polonius wrote -
<"Mad call I it, for, to define true madness,
What is't but to be nothing else but mad?" (Hamlet II,ii, 93ff)>
<How is that possible? It's the same book. Iver and I have 99.9% the
same DNA. How can Hoyle's e-book provoke such different reactions?>
Hi Mark -
After reading Iver's post I decided to download Hoyle's book and jump in with both feet. So far, I have enjoyed it and have been able to maintain my sanity. And yet………. no doubt…. madness will come…but hopefully, by the time I get to Iver's quote, my sanity will have returned.
Regards,
Blue Harris
________________________________
From: Leonard Isaksson <leonardo1orchardcity at mac.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 8:02:42 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Hellas speak
Not my plan to wade into debate on pronunciation.
I realise that this has been covered before, however, since I don't
have the responses at my fingertips, may I ask the body what may be
your estimate of modern Greek learning CDs, programmes, etc, such as
the Pimsleur, which people seem to like for learning pronunciation, or
any other courses. I see the Rosetta Stone, which covers both reading
and writing as well as speaking is regarded well too.
Leonard Isaksson
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