[B-Greek] HLI vs. HLIAS in Matt 27:46
Randall Buth
randallbuth at gmail.com
Thu May 20 14:25:27 EDT 2010
The reference to Testament of Solomon 6.8 allows us to bring some more Greek
into the thread. But it is a mistake to assume that it is pre-Christian. (the
commentary cited has not reliably presented this.)
First of all, the mention of ELWI might be evidence of having known Mark,
but secondly and more decisively, listen to
Test. Solomon 22.19-20
καὶ ἐπηρώτησα αὐτὸν λέγων·
KAI EPHRWHHSA AYTON LEGWN
Σὺ τίς εἶ; λέγει ἔσω τὸ πνεῦμα·
SY TIS EI; LEGEI ESW TO PNEYMA
Ἐγώ εἰμι δαίμων λεγόμενος Ἐφιππᾶς,
EGW EIMI DAIMWN LEGOMENOS
ὁ ἐν τῇ Ἀραβίᾳ.
O EN TH ARABIA
καὶ εἶπον αὐτῷ·
KAI EIPON AYTW
Ποίῳ ἀγγέλῳ καταργεῖσαι;
POIW AGGELW KATARGEISAI
ὁ δὲ λέγει·
O DE LEGEI
Τῷ διὰ παρθένου μέλλοντι γεννηθῆναι ἐπειδὴ αὐτὸν
TW DIA PARQENOY MELLONTI GENNHQHNAI EPEIDH AYTON
προσκυνοῦσι ἄγγελοι,
PROSKYNOYSI AGGELOI
καὶ ὑπὸ Ἰουδαίων μέλλοντι σταυρωθῆναι.
KAI YPO IOYDAIWN MELLONTI STAYRWQHNAI
. . . (the demon answers the question of which angel will
render him powerless)
"the one to be born through a virgin, whom the angels
worship, and who will be crucified by the Jews."
I have a hard time believing that such blatant antiSemitism, substituting
'Jews' for 'Romans', was penned in preChristian times.
It's got to be 2nd Cent CE or later.
Of course, the book could have been a Christian, re-editing, of an
older work, but it still smacks of impious fiction. its use is
best for the history of interpretation, not for pre-gospel
background.
That being said, ELWI is an example of how magic names were
used in antiquity. Magic/power is one of the functions of foreign
words quoted in special contexts (think: TALITA QUMI, EPPAThA).
I'm not saying that the primary meaning of Mark's foreign
sentences was magic/power, but that was a literary effect
that he has apparently benefitted from and was aware of.
Randall Buth
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Bryant J. Williams III
<bjwvmw at com-pair.net> wrote:
> Dear Kenneth,
>
> The following is from Commentary on the NT Use of the OT, edited by G. K. Beale
> and D. A. Carson, "Matthew," by Craig L. Blomberg, pp. 98-100, specifically page
> 99, Parts C & D:
>
> "C. Use in Jewish Sources. The only extant pre-Christian Jewish reference
> Ps. 22:1 appears to be the allusion in T. Sol. 6:8, in which Satan says, "If
> anyone adjures me with the oath (called) 'the Elo-i,' a great name for [God's]
> power, I disappear." The much later Targum to Ps. 22:1, of course, uses the
> Aramaic, and thus it matches Matthew's ELI for "my God," rather Mark's Hebrew
> ELWI. But, as noted above, this may reflect Jesus' actual wording; it is
> impossible to know whether Jesus would have quoted the verse in the Hebrew form
> of the Jewish Scriptures or in the Aramaic vernacular of common speech. Much
> later, in medieval Judaism, the Midrash Tehillim makes the cry of Ps. 22:1 a
> central prayer of Esther, showing how a different speaker or narrator could
> reappropriate the text in a new but equally fitting context (Mean, 2000).
>
> D. Textual Background. The MT reads, "My God, My God, why have forsaken me?"
> The LXX translates this literally, but adds "you protected me" after the
> invocation and before the psalmist's question. Mark includes only the portion of
> the text found in the MT, transliterates an Aramaic paraphrase, but follows the
> LXX verbatim for the Greek translation of Jesus' words, except for a slight
> alteration the expression for "why." Matthew mostly follows Mark but changes the
> spelling of "my God" in transliteration and changes the Greek translation of the
> same expression from the nominative used for direct address to the actual
> vocative (QEE rather than hO QEOS)."
>
> NOTE: Beware that Ps. 22 is Ps.21 LXX which is attributed to David in its
> superscription.
>
> Commentary on the NT Use of the OT, "Mark," by Rikk E. Watts, "15:24, 29, 34,"
> pp. 235-237. He gives a whole list of information on the use of Ps. 22 in Qumran
> Literature and Rabbinic/Targumic Literature.
>
> En Xristwi,
>
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenneth Litwak" <javajedi2 at yahoo.com>
> To: "B Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; "Randall Buth"
> <randallbuth at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] HLI vs. HLIAS in Matt 27:46
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 5/18/10, Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>
>> Subject: HLI vs. HLIAS in Matt 27:46
>> To: "Kenneth Litwak" <javajedi2 at yahoo.com>, "B Greek"
> <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 10:23 PM
>> Ken Litwak egrapse
>> > I was looking tonight at Jesus' cry of dereliction in
>> Matt 27:46 tonight
>> . . .
>> > Looking then at the Hebrew test of Ps 22:1, I do see
>> )LY )LY, which
>> > would explain the transliteration in Matthew 27, but
>> it would not
>> > explain the crowd's reaction, as the word in Hebrew
>> for "my God" is
>> > not equivalent to the name Elijah, )LYH. So I
>> find this an interesting
>> > puzzle, as I see no reason anyone should have confused
>> the two,
>> > especially given that, to my knowledge, there is no
>> Second Temple
>> > tradition of Elijah coming to help individuals.
>> This is probably not a
>> > B-Greek issue per se, but it is based upon the Greek
>> text. I would
>> > be interested in any thoughts others have on this
>> puzzle. Thanks.
>>
>> Firstly, one needs to follow the sound. HLEI (Hebrew name)
>> and HLEIA
>> (Gk vocative and Hebrew name) are almost the same in both
>> Hebrew and Greek. The only real difference is that the
>> Hebrew name
>> Eliya has an accent on the final 'a' sound, though even
>> that may not
>> have been true for the first century Hebrew dialect.
>> The 'problem' only comes with Mark's ELWEI. (I am currently
>> writing
>> a paper arguing that Mark's ELWEI is a purposeful change,
>> while
>> the 'common view' is that Matthew's HLEI is a purposeful
>> change.
>>
>> And there was a Second temple tradition that Eliya had to
>> come
>> before the Messiah.
>>
> Randall,
>
> Whether HLI or HLWEI sound very similar or not, it strikes me as odd that the
> bystanders would not hear the Hebrew version of Ps 22:1 and know to whom Jesus
> was calling out. Surely they dealt with people who had similar-sounding but not
> identical names all the time. Did they always confuse those?
>
> On your final point, and related to this, and my last comment on it since it
> is not about Greek per se, there is not so far as we know any Second Temple
> tradition that places the coming of Elijah before the Messiah. See Richard
> Bauckham, "The Restoration of Israel in Luke-Acts", in James M. Scott, ed.,
> Restoration: Old Testament, Jewish and Christian Perspectives, 440-41.
>
> Ken
>
>
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--
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth at gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
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