[B-Greek] TI hUMIN DOKEI?

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Sat May 29 11:36:06 EDT 2010


On May 28, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Kimmo Huovila wrote:

> On lauantai 29 toukokuu 2010, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>> 
>> On May 28, 2010, at 1:36 PM, Kimmo Huovila wrote:
>> 
>>> TI hUMIN DOKEI?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The idiom (quote above) appears in a different variant OU DOKW SOI found 32 
> places in TLG (but not in NT) or is this a different idiom.
>> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> 		4. impers.,  δοκεῖμοι >>DOKEIMOI<< much in the same sense as  δοκῶ 
> μοι >>DOKW MOI<< (supr. 1. 3), it seems to me, meseems, methinks
> 
> The intended sense was by analogy (MOI->hUMIN) from the above.

yes, as used in Gsp Matt:

Matt. 18:12 Τί ὑμῖν δοκεῖ; ἐὰν γένηταί τινι ἀνθρώπῳ ἑκατὸν πρόβατα καὶ πλανηθῇ ἓν ἐξ αὐτῶν, οὐχὶ ἀφήσει τὰ ἐνενήκοντα ἐννέα ἐπὶ τὰ ὄρη καὶ πορευθεὶς ζητεῖ τὸ πλανώμενον >>TI hUMIN DOKEI; EAN GENHTAI TINI ANQRWPWi hEKATON PROBATA KAI PLANHQHi hEN EX AUTWN, OUCI AFHSEI TA ENENHKONTA ENNEA EPI TA ORH KAI POREUQEIS ZHTEI TO PLANWMENON<<; 

Matt. 22:42 λέγων· τί ὑμῖν δοκεῖ περὶ τοῦ χριστοῦ; τίνος υἱός ἐστιν; λέγουσιν αὐτῷ· τοῦ Δαυίδ >>LEGWN· TI hUMIN DOKEI PERI TOU CRISTOU; TINOS hUIOS ESTIN; LEGOUSIN AUTWi· TOU DAUID<<. 

Matt. 26:66 τί ὑμῖν δοκεῖ; οἱ δὲ ἀποκριθέντες εἶπαν· ἔνοχος θανάτου ἐστίν >>TI hUMIN DOKEI; hOI DE APOKRIQENTES EIPAN· ENOCOS QANATOU ESTIN<<. 

but the switch to DOKW with SOI in S.El. 1041 seems to mean something different. The verb DOKW is not impresonal since we need an agent of speech for LEGEIN, or perhaps the agent is just assumed, provided from the open scenario. 

S.El. 1041
> OU DOKW SOI TAUTA SUN DIKHi LEGEIN;





> 3.  δοκῶ μοι >>DOKW MOI<< in Att., just like  δοκεῖ μοι >>DOKEI MOI<<, as Lat. videor mihi for videtur mihi, I seem to myself, methinks,  c. inf., Hdt., etc.; also, I am determined, resolved,  c. inf., Ar.



> The idiom (quote above) appears in a different variant DOKW SOI found 32 places in TLG (but not in NT) or is this a different idiom.
> 
> 
> Sophocles Trag., Electra
> Line 1041
> 
> 
> {ΗΛ.} Τῷ σῷ δικαίῳ δῆτ' ἐπισπέσθαι με δεῖ;
> {ΧΡ.} Ὅταν γὰρ εὖ φρονῇς, τόθ' ἡγήσῃ σὺ νῷν.
> {ΗΛ.} Ἦ δεινὸν εὖ λέγουσαν ἐξαμαρτάνειν.
> {ΧΡ.} Εἴρηκας ὀρθῶς ᾧ σὺ πρόσκεισαι κακῷ.
> {ΗΛ.} Τί δ'; οὐ δοκῶ σοι ταῦτα σὺν δίκῃ λέγειν;
> {ΧΡ.} Ἀλλ' ἔστιν ἔνθα χἠ δίκη βλάβην φέρει. 
> 
> Sophocles Trag., Electra
> Line 1041
> 
> 
> {HL.} TWi SWi DIKAIWi DHT' EPISPESQAI ME DEI;
> {CR.} hOTAN GAR EU FRONHiS, TOQ' hHGHSHi SU NWiN.
> {HL.} H DEINON EU LEGOUSAN EXAMARTANEIN.
> {CR.} EIRHKAS ORQWS hWi SU PROSKEISAI KAKWi.
> {HL.} TI D'; OU DOKW SOI TAUTA SUN DIKHi LEGEIN;
> {CR.} ALL' ESTIN ENQA CH) DIKH BLABHN FEREI. 
> 
> LS intermediate  
> 
> 
> 3.  δοκῶ μοι >>DOKW MOI<< in Att., just like  δοκεῖ μοι >>DOKEI MOI<<, as Lat. videor mihi for videtur mihi, I seem to myself, methinks,  c. inf., Hdt., etc.; also, I am determined, resolved,  c. inf., Ar. 
> 		4. c. inf., also, to seem  or pretend  to be doing, Lat. simulo,  or with a negat. to seem  or pretend  not to be doing, Lat. dissimulo;   ἤκουσά του λέγοντος, οὐ δοκῶν κλύειν >>HKOUSA TOU LEGONTOS, OU DOKWN KLUEIN<< Eur. 
> 	II >>II<<. = videor, to seem  to one,  δοκέεις δέ μοι οὐκ ἀπινύσσειν >>DOKEEIS DE MOI OUK APINUSSEIN<< Od., etc. 
> 		2. absol. to seem,  as opp. to reality,   οὐ δοκεῖν, ἀλλ’ εἶναι θέλει >>OU DOKEIN, ALL' EINAI QELEI<< Aesch. 
> 		3. to seem good,  Lat. placere,   εἰ δοκεῖ σοι ταῦτα >>EI DOKEI SOI TAUTA<< Id. 
> 		4. impers.,  δοκεῖμοι >>DOKEIMOI<< much in the same sense as  δοκῶ μοι >>DOKW MOI<< (supr. 1. 3), it seems to me, meseems, methinks,   ὥς μοι δοκεῖ εἶναι ἄριστα >>hWS MOI DOKEI EINAI ARISTA<< Il., etc.:—in decrees and the like,  ἔδοξε τῇ βουλῇ >>EDOXE THi BOULHi<<, placuit senatui,  Ar., Thuc., etc.;  τὸ δόξαν >>TO DOXAN<< the decree,  Hdt.;  τὰ δόξαντα >>TA DOXANTA<< Soph.;  παρὰ τὸ δοκοῦν ἡμῖν >>PARA TO DOKOUN hHMIN<< Thuc.:—so in Pass.,  δέδοκται >>DEDOKTAI<<, Lat. visum est,  Hdt., Trag., etc. 
> 			b. acc. absol.  δόξαν >>DOXAN<<, when it was decreed  or resolved,   δόξαν αὐτοῖς ὥστε διαναυμαχεῖν >>DOXAN AUTOIS hWSTE DIANAUMACEIN<< (i.e.  ὅτε ἔδοξεν αὐτοῖς >>hOTE EDOXEN AUTOIS<<) Thuc.; so,  δεδογμένον αὐτοῖς >>DEDOGMENON AUTOIS<< Id. 

Elizabeth Kline
 






More information about the B-Greek mailing list