[B-Greek] Justin and objective genitives
Ehrman, Bart D
behrman at email.unc.edu
Tue Mar 8 11:05:00 EST 2011
Thanks for the reference to Moises's interesting comments.
My problem is that apocalypsis is precisely the kind of noun that one could expect to be able to find used with subjective and objective genitives, as these are traditionally defined (I'm not affirming the category). It is an "active" noun. My question is about other kinds of nouns, which do not imply action. In other words, I'm not asking how to determine whether a genitive is objective or subjective. I'm asking whether these categories apply to non-active nouns like "memoir." And if so -- I'm neutral on the point for now! -- what would be some examples?
-- Bart Ehrman
Bart D. Ehrman
James A. Gray Professor
Department of Religious Studies
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
http://www.bartdehrman.com
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael Aubrey
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 10:48 AM
To: Brian Abasciano; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Justin and objective genitives
I had started to provide Dr. Ehrman with an actual reply of my own, but I saw
Carl's response before I got very far.
No need for repetition.
But if the question isn't clear...here are a couple more voices of agreement:
Moises Silva's discussion of genitives in his delightful little book
Interpreting Galatians says the essentially the same thing about διʼ ἀποκαλύψεως
Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ (DI' APOKALUPSEWS IHSOU XRISTOU) in Galatians 1:12:
"One could argue that the context itself seems to be leading us in different
directions: the first part of 1:12a suggests a subjective genitive, while 1:16
supports an objective genitive. When faced by a difficult choice of this type,
some interpreters look for a solution that allows them to bypass it.
Accordingly, it has become increasingly popular to argue that genitives could be
both subjective and objective. We are even told that this approach avoids false
dichotomies and that it does more justice to the richness of Paul’s thought.
Unfortunately, this solution confuses concept with grammar, and perhaps even
theologizing with exegesis. It may well be true that both of the concepts
(Christ is the revealer as well as the One revealed) are consonant with Pauline
thought and are related. Moreover, since this very passage teaches both the
divine origin of the gospel and the fact that it came to Paul when God revealed
his Son, we could argue that either interpretation is viable and that the
apostle was merely relating the nouns to each other in a general (indeed, vague)
fashion. But it is important to appreciate that, if we do so, we are not really
saying that the apostle, because of his rich thought, had both grammatical ideas
in mind. Rather, we would be suggesting that he did not have any specific
syntactical connection in view; that is, imprecision, rather than fullness,
characterizes the expression."
Moisés Silva,Interpreting Galatians: Explorations in Exegetical Method, 67-68.
Silva also has a footnote a few pages earlier (page 65n2) here commenting:
"I owe to James Voelz the following observation: What is expressed in Greek
through the genitive case is often expressed in English by simply juxtaposing
two nouns, such as shoe sale, fire sale, garage sale. Note that it is simply our
knowledge of the situational context that makes it perfectly clear to us that
the first example is the equivalent of an objective genitive (a store is selling
shoes); the second, something like a genitive of source (selling goods rescued
from a fire); the third, genitive of place (selling goods in a garage). In other
words, we are dealing with a very elementary and simple phenomenon."
http://www.amazon.com/Interpreting-Galatians-Explorations-Exegetical-Method/dp/080102305X
Silva's book is one of the few handbooks/introductions to exegetical method that
I find tolerable--and thankfully, I also find it much, much more than merely
"tolerable"!
Mike Aubrey
http://evepheso.wordpress.com
________________________________
From: Brian Abasciano <bvabasciano at gmail.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:09:02 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Justin and objective genitives
Mike said "Carl is right."
Isn't he usually?
Brian Abasciano
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