[B-Greek] Koine Greek pedagogy (was "hUPER w. acc. as location above/over - or not?")

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Thu Mar 10 11:14:28 EST 2011


On Mar 10, 2011, at 10:10 AM, George F Somsel wrote:

> LSJ lists 5 uses of ὑπέρ hUPER with the acc
> 
> 1. of Place in reference to motion, over, beyond
> 2. of Measure, above, exceeding, beyond
> 3. of Number, above, upwards of
> 4. of Time, beyond, i.e. before, earlier than
> 5. in some dialects in the sense of on behalf of
> 
> Perhaps you might consider #1 with the example of Iliad 5.15-17
> 
>   
>      15     Φηγεύς ῥα πρότερος προΐει δολιχόσκιον ἔγχος· 
>              Τυδεΐδεω δ᾽ ὑπὲρ ὦμον ἀριστερὸν ἤλυθ᾽ ἀκωκὴ 
>               ἔγχεος, οὐδ᾽ ἔβαλ᾽ αὐτόν· 

Isn't it somewhat curious that Koine Greek pedagogy wants to concentrate on the language of the GNT primarily (and only secondarily of the LXX), but in fact quite regularly and traditionally teaches a mish-mash of Classical and Koine forms and usage? Usage of prepositions is one instance. Another is the regular appearance of middle forms -- including the aorist -- of LUW  in paradigms for verbs in the appendix, although the aorist middle of LUW doesn't appear in the GNT. For hINA practically the only usage taught by standard Koine pedagogy is purpose, which accounts for only a limited number of instances of hINA + subj. in the GNT. And there are others as well. It's as if knowing a little bit of Classical Attic and a little bit of Koine is thought  sufficient preparation for reading either Classical Attic or Koine.

Linguists specializing in Biblical Koine seem to want to emphasize (questionably, in my opinion) the synchronic approach to the language, but it doesn't seem that such a message has been heard by most of those who have written primers for or who teach NT Greek. Exceptions are noteworthy. A very heavy weight is laid upon the shoulders of those who must teach "advanced" Biblical Greek. Even if we concede that the "elements" of the language must be presented in a simplified or "watered-down" form, there are so many omissions to be supplied at a later date, so many oversimplifications to be explicated and augmented. Perhaps one gets bits and pieces from working through the "Reader's Editions." I continue to think that, in the last analysis, voluminous reading is the only way to accumulate cognizance of all these "bits and pieces."

> ________________________________
> From: Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>
> To: b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thu, March 10, 2011 7:53:01 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] hUPER w. acc. as location above/over - or not?
> 
> I had been taught (and have myself taught) that hUPER with the accusative case 
> means "over/above" - i.e., the opposite of hUPO with the accusative case. 
> 
> Indeed, Metzger's chart in his Lexical Aids for Students of New Testament Greek 
> p. 80 - Table II Geometric Arrangement of the Greek Prepositions - shows 
> hUPER w. acc. as meaning physically "above."
> 
> Yet in looking today at BDAG, whereas hUPO w. acc. can indeed mean "below" 
> in terms of location, there is no corresponding "above" (location) for hUPER in 
> the 
> 
> definitions.
> 
> BDAG hUPO w. acc.: 
> B. w. acc. 
> - a position below an object or another position, under, w. acc. of place under, 
> 
> below 
> 
> - marker of that which is in a controlling position, under, under the control 
> of, under 
> 
> obligation in ref. to power, rule, sovereignty, command, etc. 
> - marker of the approximate time of a period, about w. acc.
> 
> BDAG hUPER w. acc.:
> B. w. acc. 
> - marker of a degree beyond that of a compared scale of extent, in the sense of 
> excelling, surpassing, over and above, beyond, more than
> 
> So, can hUPER w. acc. mean physically above or over something (i.e., the 
> opposite of hUPO w. acc.) in NT Greek, or not?

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)






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