[B-Greek] Syntax of Rev 21:3e

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Tue Mar 15 01:33:08 EDT 2011


Dear Stephen C, George, Steve,

Look at the development of thought in each of the clauses in v. 3:
3b. The dwelling place of God [will be] with men;
3c. and He will reside with them (nicely balanced cola, narrowing the focus from
"his residence" to "God")
3d. and they will be his people (perhaps expecting a balanced colon of "and he
will be their God")
3e. and God himself, it is with THEM he will be--their God!

I wonder with the reference to dwelling, will be with them, etc., if this is not
an allusion to the John 1:1, 14?

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: "Stephen Carlson" <stemmatic at gmail.com>; "Biblical Greek Mailing List"
<b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Syntax of Rev 21:3e


> καὶ ἤκουσα φωνῆς μεγάλης ἐκ τοῦ θρόνου λεγούσης·
> ἰδοὺ ἡ σκηνὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μετὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων, καὶ σκηνώσει μετʼ αὐτῶν, καὶ αὐτοὶ
λαοὶ
> αὐτοῦ ἔσονται, καὶ αὐτὸς ὁ θεὸς μετʼ αὐτῶν ἔσται [αὐτῶν θεός],
>
> KAI HKOUSA FWNHS MEGALHS EK TOU QRONOU LEGOUSHS
>
> IDOU hH SKHNH TOU QEOU META TWN ANQRWPWN, KAI SKHNWSEI MET' AUTWN, KAI AUTOI
> LAOI AUTOU ESONTAI, KAI AUTOS hO QEOS MET' AUTWN ESTAI [AUTWN QEOS]
>
> "John" never actually quotes a passage from the OT, but he does make obvious
> references to them and frequently adapts them to serve his own purpose. In
this
> case he seems to be referencing Ezek 37.27
> καὶ ἔσται ἡ κατασκήνωσίς μου ἐν αὐτοῖς, καὶ ἔσομαι αὐτοῖς θεός, καὶ αὐτοί μου
> ἔσονται λαός.
>
> In Re 22.3 he first announces that God's "tent" will be among men and
> essentially repeats it by saying that he will dwell among them. This statement
> and its repetition represents the first portion of Ezek 37.27. He then
> announces that God will himself be with them. This could be considered to
cover
> the second portion of the statement of Ezek 37.27. If we take αὐτῶν θεός AUTWN
> QEOS as part of the original text, it must then be somewhat of a repetition of
> the preceding. If we accept αὐτῶν θεός AUTWN QEOS as part of the text, I would
> not take it so much as an appositive as a pred nom -- "The same God
> with them shall be their God." For the use of an
> anarthrous αὐτός AUTOS preceding an arthrous θεός QEOS cf Josephus, _Wars_
> 7.346
>
>
>
> ἀόρατος μένουσα τοῖς ἀνθρωπίνοις ὄμμασιν
> ὥσπερ αὐτὸς ὁ θεός·
>
> AORATOS MENOUSA TOIS ANQRWPINOIS OMMASIN hWSPER AUTOS hO QEOS
>
> george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Carlson <stemmatic at gmail.com>
> To: Biblical Greek Mailing List <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 12:39:41 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Syntax of Rev 21:3e
>
> I'll be going over Rev 21:1-7 in my Greek class on Thursday, and I've
> found a syntactically confusing passage I'd appreciate your thoughts
> on. The sentence is the fifth clause of Rev 21:3, which reads as
> follows:
>
> καὶ αὐτὸς ὁ θεὸς μετ᾽ αὐτῶν ἔσται [αὐτῶν θεός],
>
> KAI AUTOS hO QEOS MET' AUTWN ESTAI [AUTWN QEOS].
>
> If we delete the bracketed portion, as do many manuscripts, the clause
> seems fairly straight-forward: "and God himself will be with them."
>
> With the bracketed portion, the syntax confuses me. Many translations
> add an "and": "and be their God," but I think this is cheating. Other
> possibilities are to take the bracketed portion as an appositive: "and
> God himself will be with them, their God."
>
> The commentaries I have consulted have not been too helpful. Charles
> (ICC) discussed various textual variants only to obelize the entire
> clause (i.e., to mark it as corrupt).
>
> What say the denizens of B-Greek?
>
> Stephen
> --
> Stephen C. Carlson
> Graduate Program in Religion
> Duke University
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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> KAI ESTAI hH KATASKHNWSIS MOU EN AUTOIS, KAI ESOMAI AUTOIS QEOS, KAI AUTOI MOU
> ESONTAI LAOS.
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>


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