[B-Greek] Ephesians 2:8 ESTE SESWSMENOI
Iver Larsen
iver_larsen at sil.org
Mon Mar 21 11:09:48 EDT 2011
There are many periphrastic phrases in the NT, but none of them appear to
support what you report Mounce as saying. Did he give reasons?
The perfect participle does indeed indicate a stative aspect. When it is
combined with a form of EIMI, it is this form that will contain the time
reference, but it does not change the aspect. I assume Mounce was thinking of
those with a present tense of EIMI, but even those do not support his statement.
Let me just give you a few places to look at (they are most common in John):
Mat 18:20: οὗ γάρ εἰσιν δύο ἢ τρεῖς συνηγμένοι εἰς τὸ ἐμὸν ὄνομα
OU GAR EISIN DUO H TREIS SUNHGMENOI EIS TO EMON ONOMA
for not two or three are in a position of having gathered into my name (not a
process of gathering, but a state of having gathered)
Luk 12:6: καὶ ἓν ἐξ αὐτῶν οὐκ ἔστιν ἐπιλελησμένον ἐνώπιον τοῦ θεοῦ
KAI hEN EX AUTOU OUK ESTIN EPILELYSMENON ENWPION TOU QEOU
And not one of them is in the position of being overlooked before God (not a
process of being not overlooked, but a state of not being overlooked.)
2 Cor 4:3: εἰ δὲ καὶ ἔστιν κεκαλυμμένον τὸ εὐαγγέλιον ἡμῶν, ἐν τοῖς ἀπολλυμένοις
ἐστὶν κεκαλυμμένον
EI DE KAI ESTIN KEKALUMMENON TO EUAGGELION hHMWN, EN TOIS APOLLUMENOIS ESTIN
KEKALUMMENON
Even though our gospel is in the state of being hidden, it is (only) to those
who are in the process of perishing that it is hidden.
Heb 4:2: καὶ γάρ ἐσμεν εὐηγγελισμένοι καθάπερ κἀκεῖνοι
KAI GAR ESMEN EUHGGELISMENOI KAQAPER KAKEINOI
For we are indeed in the position of having heard the good needs as well as
those (not a process)
Luk 23:15: καὶ ἰδοὺ οὐδὲν ἄξιον θανάτου ἐστὶν πεπραγμένον αὐτῷ
KAI IDOU OUDEN AXION QANATOU ESTIN PEPRAGMENON AUTWi
And listen: He is not in the position of having done anything punishable by
death (not a process of doing, but a state of having done.)
Iver Larsen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander Jech" <awjjech at gmail.com>
To: "B Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 21. marts 2011 17:00
Subject: [B-Greek] Ephesians 2:8 ESTE SESWSMENOI
>I have a question about how to understand the significance in Ephesians 2:8
> of using the periphrastic phrase ESTE SESWSMENOI rather than SESWSQE. What I
> remember from my teachers was that these were roughly equivalent; the only
> difference might be in emphasis. In both statements, we are to understand a
> perfect (or stative) aspect: you are in a state of having been saved, of
> being safe, you are right now saved.
>
> But I recently read in Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar that using
> the periphrastic form alters the aspect from perfect to continuous, so the
> meaning of the statement is not *you have been saved*, but *you are in the
> process of being saved*. I don't have my copy here, so I can't quote the
> passage exactly; it was in one of the theological introductions that the
> book includes for each chapter, in this case the introduction by Paul
> Johnson to the chapter on Perfect Participles and the Genitive Absolute.
> Reading this completely surprised me!
>
> So, I did some searching of the B-Greek archives, to see if I could find an
> answer there. Although I will admit that my searching of the archives was
> somewhat incompetent, I turned up nothing definitive. I found some support
> for my understanding of perfect periphrasis and some indication of
> disagreement about it, too, and I wasn't sure what to conclude. So I decided
> to write to the list to ask my questions directly. Is this a disagreement
> amongst Greek scholars about how to interpret periphrastic phrases? Does
> this reflect an evolution in Greek between Attic and other older dialects
> and the Koine dialect, or over some other time span? Did I just forget what
> my teachers taught me? (I recall covering perfect participles in an
> exceedingly short amount of time!) I would appreciate any help that anyone
> can provide on these points.
>
> --
> Alexander Jech
> University of Virginia
> Program in Political Philosophy, Policy & Law
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