[b-greek] Re: Eph 5:18, EN PNEUMATI

From: dixonps@juno.com
Date: Mon Jul 24 2000 - 12:56:52 EDT


Dale:

Thanks. I will enjoy the journey indeed.

Any idea how often the definite article occurs in a prepositional
phrase versus its absence? I could probably run it on my
Logos software, but you could probably do it easier on your
Gramcord (that is what you have, isn't it?).

I'm not sure what that would tell us, but it might be interesting
to compare it to the percentage of articular nouns in non-prepositional
phrases to anarthrous nouns in the same construct. Hmm.

By the way, I just checked the first passage, Mt 3:11, and found
EN hUDATI ... EN PNEUMATI hAHIWi KAI PURI translated (NKJV)
"with water ... with the Holy Spirit and fire."

I am not denying the baptismal work of the Holy Spirit, but
why can't we take PNEUMATI hAGIWI consistently with the other
two, since they too are anarthrous nouns in prepositional phrases
and are not translated as referring to a specific water or fire
(note the lack of definite articles in the translations).

That is, why not just take it consistently throughout as: I baptize
with water ... but He will baptize with holy spirit and fire?

Paul

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:41:45 -0700 "Dale M. Wheeler"
<dalemw@teleport.com> writes:
> Paul:
>
> Couple of things to keep in mind as you think this through...
>
> 1) The fact that there is no article is basically irrelevant since
> the noun
> follows a preposition, since, as I'm sure you know, Greek tends to
> drop the
> article, even when the noun is absolutely definite, when the noun is
>
> preceded by a preposition. Thus, you have to determine whether the
> noun is
> definite, indefinite, or qualitative from other factors like
> context, other
> uses, etc.
>
> 2) You should look at the phrase EN PNEUMATI in the NT, esp., in
> Paul and
> most especially in Eph. Some of these have AGIW attached, a couple
> have
> human attributes attached, a couple are debated, but the ones in Eph
> seem
> to be pretty consistent. It's my impression that the phrase, as
> referring
> to the Holy Spirit, begins with John and Jesus.
>
> Matt 3:11
> Matt 12:28
> Matt 22:43
> Mark 1:8
> Mark 1:23
> Mark 5:2
> Luke 1:17
> Luke 3:16
> John 1:33
> John 4:23,24
> Acts 1:5
> Acts 11:16
> Roma 2:29
> Roma 8:9
> Roma 9:1
> Roma 14:17
> Roma 15:16
> 1Cor 12:3
> 2Cor 6:6
> Gala 6:1
> Ephe 2:22
> Ephe 3:5
> Ephe 5:18
> Ephe 6:18
> Colo 1:8
> 1The 1:5
> 1Tim 3:16
> Jude 1:20
> Reve 1:10
> Reve 4:2
> Reve 17:3
> Reve 21:10
>
> Enjoy the journey...
>
>
>
>
> ***********************************************************************
> Dale M. Wheeler, Ph.D.
> Research Professor in Biblical Languages Multnomah Bible
> College
> 8435 NE Glisan Street Portland, OR
> 97220
> Voice: 503-251-6416 FAX:503-251-6478 E-Mail:
> dalemw@teleport.com
> ***********************************************************************

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