[b-greek] Re: Eph 5:18, EN PNEUMATI

From: dixonps@juno.com
Date: Mon Jul 24 2000 - 19:54:41 EDT


On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:57:57 GMT "B.J. Williamson"
<hellen_ic@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >By the way, I just checked the first passage, Mt 3:11, and found
> >EN hUDATI ... EN PNEUMATI hAHIWi KAI PURI translated (NKJV)
> >"with water ... with the Holy Spirit and fire."
> >
> >That is, why not just take it consistently throughout as: I
> baptize
> >with water ... but He will baptize with holy spirit and fire?
> >
> >Paul
>
>
> Does it not seem apparent to all that this discussion should have
> concluded a long time ago?

I surely hope not. Neither Dale or Dennis (two previous posts on this)
give
that impression. Furthermore, Dale's contribution here has only added
more interest, at least for some of us.

>
> I would not say these suggested translations by Paul are "bad"
> Greek; I would say that they are "not" Greek, at all. Paul has decided
how he
> will "interpret" this, so is there anything left to say?

If you think they are not Greek at all, then please clarify. Nobody
else seems to be thinking along these lines of your's, certainly not
Abbott in his commentary in the ICC series.

> Paul is guilty of imposing his (false) theology into this passage,
> but we all do that occasionally. The point is that when we get
"caught," we
> must humbly acknowledge it. If that does not take place, move on.

What theology do you think I am imposing? Do you suggest that because
I am questioning whether EN PNEUMATI in Eph 5:18 necessarily refers to
a filling by the Holy Spirit, then I am imposing false theology? No, you
have
drawn a false conclusion if you think so. I certainly am not reading any
particular theology into my consideration here. I happen to have a very
high view of the work of the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean I have
to
take PNEUMATI here as referring to the person of the Holy Spirit.

It seems to me, on the other hand, that if the noun is anarthrous and
if the contrast is with another anarthrous noun, OINWi, and if OINWi
does not refer to a particular wine, and

> I, for one, vote we move on.

I thought we were moving on. Perhaps the heading now should be changed
to reflect the progress, something like "Likelihood of definiteness of
anarthrous
nouns in prepositional constructs," a bit lengthy, to be sure.

Paul Dixon

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