From: Clwinbery@aol.com
Date: Sun May 20 2001 - 21:40:32 EDT
Charles, your post came to the list for moderation. The first two post of new
subscribers come to the list administration before distribution. This is
primarily to help prevent spam from off the list. It also helps new
subscribers understand the list rules. The problem with your post is not the
content but the fact that you are using stylized type. This becomes garbled
in the archives and is unreadable to many on the list. You need to change
your e-mail program to the plain text setting and to send your messages in
ascii. This will correct the problem. If you have trouble with the settingd,
you may locate the maker of your program on the web and find out how to set
the fonts. For that reason I am going to reject your message in the hopes
that you will re-submit it in plain ascii text.
Sincerely,
Carlton Winbery
c0-moderator
2001/5/22 0:00
Date and time this message will be automatically approved.
From: charlesblack@talk21.com
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 20:04:35 GMT+01:00
Subject: Re: [b-greek] EPIGNWSKW
Body: Solomon,
Thanks=20for=20reply=20on=20b-greek.
>=20Thayer=20defines=20EPIGINWSKW=20as=20"to=20know=20thoroughly,=20to=20know=
20accurately."=20=20BDAG=20gives=20"know=20exactly,=20completely,=20through=20
and=20through,"=20noting=20that=20this=20is=20"with=20the=20prep.=20making=20i
ts=20influence=20felt."=20=20Perhaps=20many=20translators=20do=20not=20or=20ca
nnot=20distinguish=20just=20when=20'the=20preposition=20is=20meant=20to=20make
=20its=20influence=20felt.'
>
>It=20would=20seem=20that=20some=20translations=20ignore=20the=20influence=20o
f=20epi-;=20others=20defer=20subjectively=20to=20context;=20and=20a=20careful=
20one=20might=20translate=20the=20term=20EPIGNWSIS=20consistently=20as=20"exac
t=20knowledge"=20or=20"accurate=20knowledge."
>
>Solomon=20Landers
>
>charlesblack@talk21.com=20wrote:
>
>=20Dear=20B-Greekers
>=20I=20have=20a=20question=20regarding=20the=20translation=20of=20EPIGNWSKO=2
0which=20I=20believe=20occurs=2020=20in=20the=20GNT.
>=20How=20would=20any=20of=20you=20translate=20it=3F=20Most=20le
xicons=20say=20that=20it=20is=20a=20'strengthened'=20form=20of=20GNWSKO=20yet=
20few=20English=20translations(I=20have=20in=20mind=20the=20more=20literal=20o
nes=20such=20as=20the=20NASB)make=20any=20distinction=20between=20them.=20Some
=20translations/translators=20do(some=20like=20C.B.Williams=20translates=20"*f
ull*=20knowledge"=20rather=20than=20just=20"knowledge"-NAS)but=20not=20always/
consistently=20so.
Actually,=20my=20question=20should=20have=20related=20specifically=20to=20the=
20noun=20forms=20of=20epignwsis=20and=20ginwsis=20
E=B7pi'gnw=B7sis,occurs=2020=20times=20in=20the=20GNT=20(See=20Rom.=201:28;=20
3:20;=20
10:2;=20Eph.=201:17;=204:13;Phil.=201:9;=20Col.=201:9,=2010;=202:2;=20=203:10;
1Tim=202:4;=202Tim=20
2:25;=203:7;=20Tit.=201:1;=20Phle.=201:6;=20Heb.=2010:26;=202Pet=201:2,=203;=2
02Pet1:8;=202:20).=20
There=20is=20one=20thing=20I=92d=20like=20to=20make=20clear=20at=20the=20outse
t.=20I=20am=20not=20seeking=20to=20
obtain=20a=20citation=20from=20a=20lexicon=20(as=20if=20that=20explained=20eve
rything=20away),=20but=20
rather=20a=20linguistic=20explanation=20or=20reason=20of=20why=20it=20is=20tha
t=20the=20affixed=20
preposition=20epi-=20makes=20the=20=96gnosis=20an=20=93exact=20knowledge.=94=2
0In=20other=20words,=20
what=20is=20it=20about=20the=20language=20itself=20that=20makes=20this=20disti
nction=3F=20Is=20there=20
anything=20intrinsic=20in=20the=20etymology=20or=20morphology=20of=20epignosis
=20itself=20that=20
makes=20=93exact=20knowledge=94=20a=20more=20precise=20translation=20than=20th
e=20plain=20
rendering=20of=20=93knowledge=3F=94=20If=20not,=20then=20why=20is=20there=20=2
0an=20appeal=20
made=20to=20the=20affixed=20preposition=20in=20epignosisas=20if=20the=20presen
ce=20of=20the=20affixed=20
preposition=20mandated=20a=20=93fine=20distinction=94=20between=20both=20of=20
these=20terms.=20
Is=20is=20posible=20that=20both=20epignwsis=20and=20gnwsis=20may=20mean=20the=
20
same=20thing.=20I=20would=20be=20interested=20in=20any=20example=20where=20the
se=20two=20terms=20may=20not=20have=20a=20
distinction
.=20If=20=20there=20are=20instances=20when=20these=20two=20words=20do=20not=20
make=20a=20fine=20
distinction,=20would=20this=20not=20show=20that=20there=20is=20noting=20intrin
sic=20
in=20the=20etymology=20or=20morphology=20of=20the=20terms=20themselves=20that=
20mandate=20a=20fine=20
distinction.=20Thus,could=20such=20appeals=20to=20morphology=20are=20greatly=2
0exaggerated=20by=20the=20lexical=20authorities=3F=20
Is=20it=20enough=20to=20simply=20cite=20a=20lexicon=20and=20say,=20=93well=20s
o=20and=20so=20
says=85,=94=20and=20then=20continue=20on,=20as=20if=20citing=20a=20lexicon=20s
ettled=20the=20case.=20In=20
fact,=20is=20it=20not=20so=20that=20modern=20linguistic=20research=20has=20bro
ught=20many=20of=20the=20traditional=20lexicons=20
and=20grammars=20into=20question.=20There=20is=20much=20evidence=20for=20this,
=20but=20this=20is=20not=20
the=20time=20nor=20place=20to=20go=20into=20detail.=20I=20will=20only=20say=20
that=20while=20many=20of=20the=20
grammars=20and=20lexicons=20of=20the=20past=20may=20still=
20be=20useful,=20many=20of=20them=20display=20
an=20inherent=20weakness.=20This=20weakness,=20speaking=20strictly=20from=20a=
20linguistic=20
perspective,=20is=20that=20many=20of=20these=20dated=20grammars=20and=20lexico
ns=20were=20heavily=20
influenced=20by=20comparative=20philology,=20and=20hence,=20often=20approached
=20language=20
from=20a=20diachronic=20perspective.=20This=20resulted=20in=20these=20works=20
largely=20ignoring=20
synchronic=20studies=20of=20language.=20Language=20then,=20prior=20to=20the=20
advent=20of=20modern=20
linguistics,=20was=20viewed=20from=20an=20isolative=20and=20atomistic=20perspe
ctive,=20where=20
often=20exegetes=20derived=20meaning=20from=20the=20isolated=20parts=20in=20or
der=20to=20obtain=20the=20
meaning=20of=20the=20word=20in=20question=20(this=20is=20not=20to=20say=20that
=20one=20can=20never=20derive=20
a=20basic=20meaning=20from=20etymology,=20only=20that=20this=20procedure=20may
=20be=20extremely=20
misleading=20due=20to=20the=20arbitrary=20nature=20of=20language.=20Consider
=20the=20verb=20
anaginosko,=93I=20know=20up=3F=94).=20James=20Barr=20has=20rightly=20exposed=2
0the=20danger=20of=20such=20
exegetical=20ideologies.=20This=20type=20of=20ideology=20did=20not=20stop=20he
re,=20for=20often,=20
after=20deriving=20the=20meaning=20of=20the=20word=20by=20the=20etymology,=20t
his=20=93meaning=94=20of=20
the=20word=20was=20then=20transported=20to=20the=20sentence=20in=20order=20to=
20derive=20the=20meaning=20
of=20the=20sentence.=20The=20meaning=20of=20the=20sentence=20in=20turn,=20was=
20used=20to=20derive=20the=20
meaning=20of=20the=20context,=20etc.=20In=20theological=20studies,=20the=20pra
ctice=20of=20citing=20
=93proof=20words=94=20instead=20of=20=93proof=20texts=94=20became=20the=20norm
.=20Barr=20correctly=20
noted,=20=93if=20we=20are=20to=20have=20proof-words=20instead=20of=20proof-tex
ts=20I=20doubt=20if=20we=20
are=20making=20progress=94(Barr,Semantics,=20271).=20
=20=20=20The=20type=20of=20exegetical=20abuse=20that=20can=20arise=20from=20a=
20strictly=20word-bound=20
analysis=20t
akes=20a=20new=20twist=20when=20highly=20theological=20passages=20are=20at=20i
ssue,=20
leading=20some=20into=20what=20may=20be=20accurately=20described=20
as,=93Theological-Lexicography,=94=20or,=20as=20Silva=20suggest=92,=20=93Lexic
al=20
Theology=94(Mois=E9s=20Silva,=20Biblical=20Words=20and=20Their=20Meaning:An=20
Introduction=20to=20
Lexical=20Semantics,=2023).=20As=20noted,=20the=20idea=20of=20=93proof-words,=
94=20instead=20of=20
=93proof-texts,=20seems=20to=20often=20follow=20from=20such=20a=20heavy=20word
-oriented=20ideology=20
of=20the=20NT=20language.=20But=20it=20has=20been=20reported=20that=20some=20h
ave=20gone=20far=20beyond=20
the=20word-bound=20mentality,=20even=20considering=20that,=20=93New=20Testamen
t=20doctrine=20is=20
largely=20based=20on=20its=20prepositions=94(It=20is=20common=20knowledge=20th
at=20this=20remark=20is=20
usually=20attributed=20to=20B.=20F.=20Westcott=20[cf.=20Silva,=20Biblical=20Wo
rds,=2023n]).=20Such=20
an=20ideology=20was=20also=20bound=20to=20have=20an=20influence=20on=20b
ible=20translation.=20Would=20we=20have=20an=20instance=20of=20this=20where=20
a=20translator=20makes=20a=20distinction=20between=20epiginwskw=20and=20ginwsk
w=3F=20Now,=20I=20stand=20
to=20be=20corrected,=20but=20as=20far=20as=20I=20am=20aware,=20no=20=20transla
tion=20has=20done=20
this.=20While=20other=20translations=20have=20translated=20epignosisas=20=93cl
ear=20knowledge=94=20
(Weymouth;=20Goodspeed),=20=93deeper=20knowledge=94=20(Twentieth=20Century=20N
T)=20or=20
=93ever-growing=20knowledge=94=20(Barclay)(see=20their=20renderings=20of=20Col
=201:9);=20none=20
has=20translated=20every=20instance=20of=20this=20term=20in=20every=20context.
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
As=20already=20indicated=20many=20of=20the=20traditional=20works=20were=20infl
uenced=20by=20
comparative=20philology.=20In=20fact,=20one=20of=20the=20dictionaries=20that=2
0could=20have=20been=20cited=20
in=20support=20of=20your=20argument=20for=20your=20understanding=20of=20gnosis
=20and=20epignosis=20
(W.E.=20Vine,=20An=20Expository=20Dictionary=20of
=20New=20Testament=20Words=20with=20their=20
Precise=20Meanings=20for=20English=20Readers)=20was=20also=20formulated=20foll
owing=20the=20
comparative=20model,=20and=20likewise=20also=20captured=20an=20archaic=20notio
n=20of=20language=20
(absent=20from=20the=20many=20valuable=20recent=20contributions=20of=20modern=
20linguistic=20
research).=20This=20becomes=20very=20clear=20in=20the=20forward=20to=20the=20N
T=20section=20(vi)=20of=20
this=20dictionary=20where=20W.=20Graham=20seems=20to=20agree=20with=20the=20no
tion=20that=20=93New=20
Testament=20doctrine=20is=20largely=20based=20on=20its=20prepositions.=94=20.=
20Is=20this=20a=20linguistically=20indefensible=20notion.=20The=20point=20here
=20is=20that=20the=20NT=20
languages=20were=20often=20approached=20with=20an=20exaggerated=20sense=20of=2
0=93awe=94=20and=20
=93respect=94=20(I=20am=20referring=20to=20the=20language=20itself,=20not=20th
e=20content).=20
Regarding=20Rom=207:=207=20in=20comparison=20with=20Rom.=203:=2020;=20
Is=20there=20any=20reason=20to=20conclu
de=20that=20gnosis=20in=20Rom=207:7=20is=20less=20of=20an=20
"accurate=20knowledge";=20than=20the=20epignosis=20of=20Rom=203:20=3F=20It=20i
s=20important=20to=20note=20
that=20in=20Rom=207:7=20the=20author=20is=20using=20these=20terms=20in=20a=20s
imilar=20context=20where=20he=20
speaks=20about=20the=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20by=20the=20same=20law.=20Should=
20we=20think=20
that=20Paul's=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20by=20the=20law=20in=20Rom=207:7=20was=2
0not=20"exact=20knowledge"=20[i.e.=20an=20=93inexact=20knowledge=94].=20Should
=20we=20assume=20that=20this=20knowledge=20in=20Rom=207:7=20was=20less=20"exac
t"=20than=20the=20epignosis=20of=20Rom=20
3:20=3F=20
Thus=20a=20question=20is=20simply=20this:=20Does=20Paul=92s=20Knowledge=20of=2
0sin=20in=20Rom=207:7=20
display=20=93less=20exactness,=94=20than=20his=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20in=20R
om=203:20=3F=20Or,=20to=20put=20
it=20another=20way,=20is=20Paul=92s=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20in=20Rom=203:20=2
0=93more=20exact=94=20than=20
his=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20in=20Rom=207:7=3F=20
=20=20=20The=20point=20of=20Rom=203:20=20indeed=20is=20that=20through=20the=20
Law=20an=20"accurate"=20
knowledge;=20or=20a=20special=20perceived=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20could=20be=
20gained=20as=20the=20Law=20
pointed=20out=20what=20sin=20was.=20This=20however,=20is=20certainly=20not=20d
educed=20from=20the=20
etymology=20and=20the=20affixed=20preposition=20with=20gnosis,=20but=20rather=
20because=20the=20
context=20transports=20this=20sense=20to=20the=20word.=20How=20do=20we=20know=
3F=20The=20proof=20of=20this=20
is=20the=20fact=20that=20the=20same=20author,=20using=20the=20plain=20term=20g
nosis=20discusses=20the=20
very=20same=20issue=20of=20his=20knowledge=20of=20sin=20through=20the=20same=2
0law=20in=20Rom=207:7.=20
=20=20=20If=20there=20is=20in=20these=20terms=20that=20show=20a=20fine=20disti
nction=20
because=20of=20their=20etymology=20and=20morphological=20structure=20is=20corr
ect,=20then=20here=20
(Rom.=203:20=20and=20Rom=207:7)=20we=20run=20into=20a=20serious=20problem.=20T
his=20clearly=20
demons
trates=20that=20both=20terms,=20although=20different=20in=20form,=20can=20be=2
0used=20without=20
such=20notions=20of=20mandatory=20fine=20distinctions.=20
--- B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Mon Feb 11 2002 - 18:40:27 EST