From: Richard Ghilardi (qodeshlayhvh@juno.com)
Date: Mon Dec 31 2001 - 19:58:07 EST
Dear b-greekers,
>MK 6:22 -- EISELQOUSHS THS QUGATROS AUTHS [AUTOU] hHRWiDIADOS KAI
>ORCHSAMENHS HRESEN TWi hHRWiDHi...
[Ghilardi]
I would render it thus:
>
>"When the very daughter of Herodias entered..."
[Conrad]
The way I read this version of yours, "very" refers to daughter, not to
the
entire phrase; and it looks to me like you're really taking AUTHS as
intensive referring to QUGATROS alone, NOT to the entire phrase; that is:
AUTHS refers to THS QUGATROS and intensifies it, while THS hHRWiDIADOS is
simply a possessive genitive depending upon QUGATROS.
[Ghilardi]
I admit that I don't know how to English the Greek very well but that
doesn't nullify my analysis of how AUTHS functions in this phrase.
[Conrad]
I used that phrase ( difficile per difficilius ) because it seemed to me
unlikely that AUTHS would follow THS QUGATROS rather than precede THS
hHRWiDIADOS.
[Ghilardi]
In fact, it does BOTH. AUTHS both follows THS QUGATROS and precedes THS
hHRWiDIADOS. Where better could Mark have placed this pronoun if he had
wanted to qualify the entire phrase?
[Conrad]
I still don't see how AUTHS can function to govern the entire phrase THS
QUGATROS THS hHRWIDIADOS, even by virue of it's placement between THS
QUGATROS and THS hHRWiDIADOS. To me personally that seems not only
difficilius but difficillimum.
[Ghilardi]
Are you saying that Greek is incapable of using an intensive pronoun like
AUTHS to qualify an entire phrase consisting of a head noun and a genitve
adjunct?
Previously I wrote:
>I don't know why, Carl, we so often misunderstand each other. I'm not
>naive enough to think it's wholly due to the nature of the medium.
[Conrad]
I'm not sure what we mean by this, but I will confess that I was
altogether confounded by your notion of a "third alternative" and still
don't understand it.
[Ghilardi]
Even my attempt to analyze our misunderstanding is misunderstood! :-)
I'm sorry that I have not been able to express myself more clearly to you
about the function of AUTHS in Mk 6:22. I don't know what I can do about
that. As for my remark about "the nature of the medium", I was referring
to e-mail. I think it's difficult (maybe even difficillimum) to
communicate by e-mail without misunderstanding creeping in at some point.
But I don't think that e-mail communication is wholly to blame. I'd chalk
up a good part of it to my fallen human nature.
[Conrad]
Perhaps this is a matter we'd best simply agree to disagree about.
[Ghilardi]
Yet another one, eh? But I do so love having the last word. ;-)
Yours in His grace,
Richard Ghilardi -- qodeshlayhvh@juno.com
New Haven, CT USA
Nibai kaurno hwaiteis gadriusando in airtha gaswiltith,
silbo ainata aflifnith: ith jabai gaswiltith, manag akran bairith.
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