From: Blahoslav Cicel (cbmost@iol.cz)
Date: Tue Dec 21 1999 - 04:21:18 EST
Dne Po, 20 prosinec 1999 jste napsal(a):
Steven C Miller:
> Brown [1982] gives three grammatical interpretations (which I
> present below with slight modifications) of (PERI TOU LOGOU) THS ZWHS.
(a) It could be an appositive genitive meaning: "about the word which is life."
(b) It could be a qualifying genitive meaning: "about the life-giving word."
(c) It could be a objective genitive meaning: "concerning the word about life."
But Brown's translation merely gives: "about the word of life."
Carl W Conrad:
And rightly so! What's useful about the term "connective" or
"pertinentive" genitive and the recognition that it is only a structural,
not a semantic case is that one comes (hopefully) to realize that most of
the sub-categories of the grammars such as the above are strategies for
conveying the Greek construction into a target language and have nothing to
do with the "meaning" conveyed by the Greek; these categories show how we
in English (or others in other languages) make semantic distinctions that
the Greek, so far as we know, wasn't ever thinking about. >>
SCM...
Although what you say here is often true, I'm not for sure that it
completely applies in this instance. As for the three interpretation given
above, I'm unsure what 'a' is supposed to mean, unless perhaps it is saying
the same thing as 'b.' But it seems to me that 'b' and 'c' are saying two
different things. 'B' seems to refer to a "word" which can give life. And
'c' seems to refer to a "message" about life. Yes?
CWC...
Perhaps we're talking about different things. I'm saying that those three
interpretations of the genitive are not items of Greek grammar but
strategies for conversion of what in Greek is unspecified into an English
that demands "nicer" or "more transparent" expressions of the possible
meaning. In fact, I think when we say (you say? Brown says?) "it could be a
..."--if we really MEAN that "it COULD be ..." -- we imply that the Greek
ttext itself doesn't give us any clue about WHICH of these makes the best
sense. I think that English "of" + a noun is often every bit as vague as
the Greek genitive of a noun linked to another noun. Certainly
Greek-speakers chose to use prepositions when they wanted to distinguish
more sharply how they were using genitive-case forms, but when they didn't,
they sent non-Greek-speakers on a wild-goose chase searching for categories
into which to put the genitive uses.
Blaho:
It is interesting to see how people speaking digfferent languages have to have
different approach to the translation of greek (or wchichever second
language...). The english speaking poeple MUST to do an exegesis when
translating PERI TOU LOGOU THS ZWHS. We translate it one to one and have not to
work out grammatic categories. It is (in czech) o slove zivota. Let the
preacher makes the exegesis ;-) In german it is similar: vom Wort des Lebens.
And Carl is right when stating that the greek says nothing more than the ZWH is
connected with the LOGOS.
The exegesis has to see the context. My guess is, that John speaking PERI
TOU LOGOU THS ZWHS speaks about Jesus. See v.2 and cf with John 1:1-3.
Blaho
pastor, Church of Brothers, Most, Czech rep.
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