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Re: Organic hay production



Clarence -

You don't seem interested in understanding how biodynamics
or rock dusts can be integrated with pasture management.

Instead, you raise questions because you question the validity
of biodynamics.

It is OK to question biodynamic.  But I think you should be
honest about it and also participate in a dialogue by sharing
information about your farm and what you are really looking
for.

Steve Diver
 

Rainbow's End Farms & Orchards wrote:

 Steve, Out of respect for a list that is seriously and scientifically interested in proven and measurable methodologies I think it time to end this thread that is rapidly becoming one of obfuscation, alchemy, and smoke and mirrors. With all due respect, should you elect to cut off cow horns, stuff them with cow manure and herbs, bury them with the proper alignment of the cosmic forces, dance naked in the moonlight, wait the appropriate number of months, dig up the mixture, sell most for 9.00 a tablespoon to unsuspecting rubes, then mix  the remaining tablespoon with umpteen gallons of water and spray the stuff over your acreage then please feel free to do so in lieu of any recognized, replicatable scientific process. However, your observation "Biodynamic dairy farmers, by the way, apply BD compost and BD preps and that is a *regular* part of management.  BD farmers are not waiting for bench mark studies, they practice. If you buy BD dairy products, it is part of the production system that brought
you BD cheese and milk.  Demeter is a serious organic label. Consumers appreciate Demeter quality." totally undermines any further attempts at serious unbiased professional exchange or consideration.You have every right to your opinion, but I seriously question the ethics of such being presented as facts, especially when and if one is in a professional position of public trust.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Organic hay production
 Your comments provide further insight, Clarence.

Yet you did not explain what electrical inductive is.
What is it?

What does it or bio-intensive, for example, have
to do with hay production?

Also, you have Dexter cattle but we don't know how many
head or many acres you graze, what species of forage grow on
your farm, what grazing systems you employ or wish to employ,
as well as your fencing and watering capacity.

Do you want to raise organic hay and sell it to some
horse farms as high-quality, high-dollar hay?  Or do you
just want to cut some hay on your farm?   Which cow
gives a hoot if the hay has mixed forage if you just
cut it for on-farm use?

You have tacked on big questions relating to alternative
farming practices and philosophies onto a topic -- organic
hay production -- that is simple and straightforward in terms
of organic husbandry.

Biodynamic dairy farmers, by the way, apply BD
compost and BD preps and that is a *regular* part
of management.  BD farmers are not waiting for
bench mark studies, they practice. If you buy BD dairy
products, it is part of the production system that brought
you BD cheese and milk.  Demeter is a serious organic label.
Consumers appreciate Demeter quality.

Steve Diver
 

Rainbow's End Farms & Orchards wrote:

I applaud many of the principles of organic hay production and practice them myself. However, I must admit to some degree of healthy questioning of many of the "systems"  and would welcome a less confrontational willingness to compare and discuss for the sake of the industry and for the protection of those who might otherwise be duped.....OR for those of us who might be pleasantly surprised to see scientific proof of how the various approaches compare in terms of input and output. The question, I believe was rather straightforward....not proposing to reinvent the wheel, but simply asking whether there have been controlled situations using accepted scientific approaches and measurements wherein the various systems have been professionally measured and qualified in a side by side test. Sorry Steve, but there is no background, ulterior motive, or other and should you already have data from studies comparing Biointensive, Biodynamic, Organic, Conventional or others in such field trials then I would welcome that....especially in such a "bench test" where several approaches are tested using the same controls such as time, location, crops, etc.. However, I must admit that the horns on my Dexter cattle are safe where they are and I do not intend to grind up Stone Mountain to generate miracle dust. My three feet of topsoil here can and will grow anything including my cattle, goats, sheep, pork, poultry, vegetables, berries, fruit, hay or other. In fact, I have to be careful when I put my tools down to keep the handles from sprouting! My system is simple...I try to integrate the best of all approaches and treat the soil as a gift of which I am but a steward.  Clarence W. Walker