From: Frank Teuton (fteuton@sympatico.ca)
Date: Mon Nov 11 2002 - 08:25:37 EST
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Leonard" <kirk@oregonatural.com>
To: "Compost Tea Group" <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 6:41 PM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: NOSB & Compost Tea
> On this one, Frank, I don't agree with your two cents. Is Richard Mathews
a
> personal friend of yours? I recall a key, acerbic element of his argument
> that sounds just like yours.
Never met the man, never even heard of him until I read the minutes, Kirk.
But I do see that if there is not more regulation of what is done to make
compost teas, the 'food safety crisis' problem he mentions is going to be
pretty likely to occur.
Yes, there is potential danger here, but it is
> so much less than Lysol by its very nature that I am comfortable forging
> ahead, without any particular strategy, actually, except biology is bigger
> and better than chemistry.
>
> You are going to have to show me how the Bess material was CFR 503 Class A
> compost based on what Elaine and Jack Houck have said. I would love to
see
> that chain of custody, also. T'wasn't good compost, pretty clearly, and a
> questionable tea machine. Eh? Class A doesn't permit ecoli-laced
material
> for any use above much lower levels than were used. We will figure out
> aeration standards soon, too.
Class A biosolids compost levels for fecal coliforms are <1000 MPN/g. The
compost Bess used contained E.coli levels in the 10-100 MPN/g range, well
within the EPA 503c regs, unless there were extraordinarily large numbers of
other fecal coliforms present.
http://www.epa.gov/owm/mtb/biosolids/503pe/503pe_5.pdf
http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2000/compost/msg00162.html
It is apparently true that OMRI standards for compost require nearly
complete E. coli eradication, <3 CFU/g :
http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/1997/compost/msg05799.html
I looked around for explanations of the difference between CFU and MPN
standards, and found:
http://www.splammo.net/bact102/102cfunf.html
http://www.jlindquist.net/generalmicro/102dil3.html
So it is quite possible to get a virtually E. coli free compost, but Class A
EPA 503 regs do not require anything close to that.
A negative test for E. coli in compost would need to be <1 CFU/g or 0 MPN/g,
wouldn't it?
If you want an eyeful on E. coli in compost, read this article, Kirk:
www.woodsend.org/microbia.pdf
That article is part of the reason I place a lot more faith in vermophilic
compost than thermophilic compost.
Remember this, Kirk, if we aren't ::ALWAYS:: right about this, there is a
serious risk of a 'food safety crisis' arising.
The need for rigorous testing is not the death knell for compost tea
(amplified foodweb culture) technology. To the contrary, it is the sine qua
non for its safe development for fresh produce crops.
I realize this E. coli business can be taken out to lunch, so to speak, and
I can imagine the fanatics trying to impose a 'Silent Spring' scenario to
get rid of all the birds flying over, and dropping on, farmer's fields.
I mean, consider the days when passenger pigeons darkened the skies for
hours as a flock passed....or the density of droppings along a wall covered
with Virginia Creeper or similar bird magnet vines.
We all live, as the microbiology prof told my late father in law, in a thin
layer of fecal material...shaking hands and hugging your kids is fraught
with hazard...;-)
But still, we do need to put safeguards in place. Get the testing regimen in
place, get everyone to sign on, and let's move this process forward.
Frank Teuton
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