[compost_tea] Soil Soup technical CT forum & info sharing

From: Nicole Nelson (nnelson8587@qwest.net)
Date: Fri Feb 21 2003 - 17:32:48 EST


It may be a mistake to think those using the Soil Soup equipment have
no awareness of the fungal possibilities of tea. In curiosity I finally
looked at the soil soup web site . The site has a technical forum were
those making tea share information. A question about growing fungal tea
and the needed nutrients was posted. the only answer, at the time I
read the list two days ago, included this...

As for where to get ingredients, I would
guess that SoilSoup has them. If not, I
am at a loss as they are the only ones
that actively pursue a fungal dominated
tea mix.

This is not a slam against any other group simply a person using a
single recourse without knowing of further options. Since it is an open
forum people wishing to further knowledge on the technical aspects of
brewing compost tea must all be welcome. I did not post research from
members of this forum but if the originators of some very good fungal
food experiments should wish to post on the Soil Soup forum I believe
there might be some very grateful recipients.






On Friday, February 21, 2003, at 07:03 AM, soilfoodweb@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Jeff -
>
> I have shown Ed Neff and Jerry Erickson the data that prove the
> SoilSoup machine doesn't make compost tea.  Their response was to
> start a campaign with their distributors to say that fungi don't grow
> in compost tea. 
>
> So, I demonstrated that fungi DO grow in compost tea. 
>
> So then they told their distributors that fungi aren't important in
> compost tea. 
>
> So now we're showing just how important fungi are in occupying leaf
> surfaces and keeping the "bad guy" fungi from getting a foothold on
> the leaf or root surface. 
>
> So now Ed Neff tells people that you can hold your tea for any length
> of time without aeration and it doesn't hurt anything. 
>
> I think Ed got this point of view from a graduate student from Oregon
> State University.  In Steve's thesis he brewed some anaerobic teas
> that ON PLATE COUNT MEDIA, showed inhibition of pathogens. 
>
> Any chance those toxic compounds would also inhibit and kill plant
> cells?  Any chance those toxic compounds would also kill the
> beneficial organisms on the plant surfaces?  Not a thought on the part=
 
> of the University folk he was working with that this might be the
> case. 
>
> These are TOXIC compounds being produced in anaerobic conditions. 
> They are no different from any other pesticide.
>
> But you don't know what toxins you are dealing with, or in what
> concentration.  
>
> It is sad that we have to go through this, but neither SoilSoup nor
> Growing Solutions wants to hear that their machines only make
> bacterial tea.  They try to defend their products by trying to
> marginalize me.  But no matter what they may or may not say about me,
> when those machines go anaerobic, we're talking about some serious
> toxins being produced.   
>
> So, the best thing is if everyone who reads this makes sure that this
> message gets out. 
>
> The message: 
>
> 1.  Neither SoilSoup nor Growing Solutions make compost tea machines.=
 
> 2.  They make bacterial tea machines, and you can't expect the same
> benefits from bacterial tea that you can get from aerobic compost > tea.=
 
> 3.  You may well be dealing with some nasty compounds being made in
> anaerobic, bacterial tea machines, no better, and maybe worse, than
> any other pesticide. 
>
> Can you get some benefits from bacterial tea?  Sure.  You can kill
> things, outright kill things, with those solutions.  If the toxic
> material in an anaerobic tea is low enough to kill pathogens but not
> the plant cells, you'll see some interesting effects. 
>
> But what is the cut off where the toxins go from not-killing plant
> cells to killing plant cells?  Do either SoilSoup or Growing Solutions=
 
> monitor that?  They don't seem to even have a clue what dangers exist
> if the teas go seriously anaerobic. 
>
> Will the USDA or FDA recognize this problem?  Some really nasty
> bacteria can start growing in anaerobic bacterial tea - bacteria like
> Clostridium botulinum.  Talk about dangerous! 
>
> So, can everyone undertake the mission to let everyone know what the
> problems are here?   Call up the nurseries and distributors that sell=
 
> these potentially anaerobic materials, and explain the potential
> problems.  At least if the people selling the machines understand what=
 
> they need to be saying to their clients, maybe we can save the
> situation. 
>
> What is it that needs to be said?  Anaerobic tea can make some
> seriously toxic materials.  Yes, those materials can kill plant
> pathogens, but they can also kill plants, and could be harmful to
> people.  Increase the aeration in the machines so the anaerobic
> bacteria that make those toxic compounds do not grow.  Make sure the
> teas stay aerobic.  Make sure the beneficial fungi grow in the tea, as=
 
> well as beneficial aerobic bacteria. 
>
> Doesn't aerobic tea also make toxic compounds?  No.  The mechanisms
> for aerobic tea to prevent diseases is entirely different.  Read the
> information on the ICTC website.  They have a good explaination of how=
 
> aerobic compost tea works.
>
> You cannot hold bacterial teas for any length of time without
> aeration. 
>
> If you hold bacterial tea more than a few hours without aeration, you
> have to add 3% phosphoric acid to stop anaerobic metabolism.  You then=
 
> kill half the species present in the tea, but that's better than
> making something that can harm people.   
>
> Can we all work to shut down this problem before it gets out-of-hand? 
>
> Thanks -
>
> Elaine
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> www.soilfoodweb.com
> SFI Oregon, USA
> SFI Australia
> SFI New York
> SFI Europe
> SFI New Zealand
>
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