Re: [compost_tea] Digest Number 279

From: Jason Austin (jason.austin@shaw.ca)
Date: Tue Apr 22 2003 - 15:06:34 EDT


Thanks Leon. I have a thermometer, and a DO meter is on order. I had
not thought of a continous check.

Are you doing this? Is this being done by having the computer linked to
the sensors and reading the probes each two minutes, or are the sensors
saving the data and downloading to the computer later?

Jason

Leon Hussey wrote:

> Hi Jason,
> We have a 100 gal brewer using a very efficient 1/3 hp regenerative pump.
> This size blower is on the edge of being adequate. I have been
> considering
> a 1/2 hp. for the 100 gal. The 500 gal obviously has more vol. and head.
> Also, the materials used will affect the consumption of the dissolved o2
> during the process. The only way to know (be assured) that your brewer
> stays aerobic during the total brewing cycle is by using a computer sys.
> that reads the o2 and temp every 2 min. This cycle will change with the
> foods, compost, temp, o2, etc. When trying to understand what the
> brewer is
> doing only one variable can be changed and MUST be tested through Soil
> Foodweb Lab. Otherwise you are just guessing. ( 95 % of the time my
> assumptions are wrong)Because this is such a dynamic process with many
> many
> variables (many untested and unknown) it becomes very complicated.
> Probably
> the best advise I can give you is think clearly on what question you are
> trying to answer (too many question too many possibilities) and answer one
> question at a time. To consistently get the numbers you want you need
> to be
> consistent in controlling the variables and you need to understand
> what the
> variables are. This isn't test tube stuff!! It is real world stuff!!
>
> Long Life-Honey in the Heart Leon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> To: <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:31 AM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Digest Number 279
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 13 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Typical brew
> From: "lmvine" <Lmvine1@cs.com>
> 2. Re: Digest Number 278
> From: "Leon Hussey" <leon@simplici-tea.com>
> 3. Re: Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
> From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca>
> 4. Re: Typical brew
> From: Robert Norsen <bnbrew@yahoo.com>
> 5. colloidal clay and rock phosphate
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@gardener.com>
> 6. Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> 7. Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
> From: laura_s@vaxxine.com
> 8. Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@gardener.com>
> 9. Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> 10. Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> 11. Re: Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
> From: "Anthony" <boofq@wn.com.au>
> 12. Re: Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
> From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca>
> 13. The usage of CaO
> From: "TaChung Huang" <tachung_h@yahoo.com>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:01:07 -0000
> From: "lmvine" <Lmvine1@cs.com>
> Subject: Re: Typical brew
>
> --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@g...>
> wrote:
> > Gee, one strand? What does that mean? You got the Santa Beard
> fungal growth.....does that mean only one was left in the tea as the
> rest were devoured by bacteria or did you only get one out of the
> compost?
>
> Jeff, I take it to mean that there was only one strand in the ml or
> so of tea analyzed. I expect the "SC beard" survived but most or
> all was attacked by anerobic bacteria due to low oxygen at some
> point in the brewing process.
>
> > But let's continue. Does your low fungal number mean you had a bad
> tea? I don't think so. I look at the fungal numbers as being really
> important for foliar coverage for disease suppression and not as
> important when it comes to foliar feeding and for soil drench.
> Right or wrong?
> >
> > Cheers, jeff l
>
> It is my understanding that I want fungal dominated tea for a soil
> drench on my grapes. Is that correct Elaine?
>
> Jeff, thanks for your analysis.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:43:10 -0700
> From: "Leon Hussey" <leon@simplici-tea.com>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 278
>
> Thank you Elaine!! It is all sooo simple and yet very complicated as you
> look to each variable. Our own success and level of success can be
> determined by sleep, temp., humidity, food, etc. and so it is with all
> forms of life. Looking at this biology as people I think is very helpful
> and I appreciate your making this anology so we can really understand this
> world we can't see without the help of trained people and special
> equipment.
> Thank you for helping us!!!
>
> Long Life-Honey in the Heart Leon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> To: <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 5:18 AM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Digest Number 278
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 12 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Compost Tea Seminar April 25th in Escondido, CA
> From: Carole Eddington <cjeddington@earthlink.net>
> 2. Re: Low Fungi
> From: "lmvine" <Lmvine1@cs.com>
> 3. california
> From: "COYOTEHILLFARM" <farm@surfglobal.net>
> 4. Re: Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
> From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca>
> 5. Re: info request
> From: sbrustkern@aol.com
> 6. Rumen
> From: "Halstead" <halstead@mail.telepac.pt>
> 7. Re: Re: Low Fungi
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@gardener.com>
> 8. Re: Typical brew
> From: soilfoodweb@aol.com
> 9. Re: california
> From: soilfoodweb@aol.com
> 10. Re: Typical brew
> From: Lmvine1@cs.com
> 11. Re: Typical brew
> From: "Thomas Giannou" <thomas@tandjenterprises.com>
> 12. Re: Typical brew
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@gardener.com>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 05:25:49 -0700
> From: Carole Eddington <cjeddington@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Compost Tea Seminar April 25th in Escondido, CA
>
>
> Compost Tea Seminar - Upcoming Event on the West Coast
>
> Friday April 25th, 2003 there will be a Compost Tea Seminar on the West
> Coast at San Diego Farm Bureau, 1670 E. Valley Pkwy, Escondido, CA Limited
> Seating. Reserve by April 18th. If you have any questions or would like
> more information please call 760-942-6086 or email geohahn1@juno.com or
> visit the web site: www.wormgold.com. $49 Registration Fee covers Buffet
> Lunch, Refreshments, & Reprints
>
> The educational program featuring the Soil Food Web (SFI Lab) Technology
> developed by Dr. Elaine Ingham will be presented by:
>
>
> Featured Speaker:
>
> Paul Wagner, Director of SFI Labs in New York (see bio and published
> articles at end of this notice)
> Subject: How to Enhance Soil Health, Improve Plant Growth and Provide
> Disease and Insect Resistance
>
>
> Seminar Topics to be discussed include:
>
> 1. Understanding the Soil Food Web Technology.
> 2. How to manage soil biology to increase yields and plant health,
> compete
> with disease and insects, reduce water usage, and reduce cost.
> 3. Elimination of Need for Chemical Fertilizer and Pesticides
> 4. Discussion of basics of vermicompost and compost tea
> 5. Major Reduction in Overall Maintenance Costs
> 6. Applications for Parks, Golf Courses, Greenhouses, Vineyards,
> Food Crops, Trees (Nut, Fruit, Citrus, forests) etc.
> 7. Live demonstration of the WORMGOLD® Extractors.
> 8. Question and Answer Session
>
>
> WORMGOLD Updates:
>
> Wormgold Solution (Compost Tea) reports are now posted on the SFI Website
> under Products Tested--Compost Tea.
>
> The Speaker and Panel Discussion at the Seminar held at Cline Cellars
> Vineyard in Sonoma, CA on February 14th, 2003 was videotaped and is
> presently being edited. The tapes will be available from Wormgold
> Solutions
> and SFI Labs. A posting will be made when available.
>
> The Wormgold website is partially up at www.wormgold.com
>
> WORMGOLD Solution (Compost Tea) will be available starting this spring
> from
> several locations on the East and West Coast, call for locations
> 415-898-5895 or 760-942-6086.
>
>
> Published Articles by Paul Wagner:
>
> April 2002 in The Landscaper Newspaper: Sustainable fruit tree management.
>
> May 2002 in The Landscaper Newspaper: Hot, dry and poor soil- stressed
> Birch trees. Why are Birch trees so sensitive and what can we do about it?
>
> June 2002 in The Landscaper Newspaper: Do organic fertilizers affect weed
> growth? You better believe it!
>
> July 2002 in The Landscaper Newspaper: Using compost tea effectively
> in the
> landscape.
>
> August 2002 in The Landscaper Newspaper: ROOT DISEASES OF TURF: How to
> prevent their development and deal with existing problems using soil
> biology.
>
> August 2002 in Arbor Age Magazine: Customizing soil mixes to reduce
> planting stress.
>
> September 2002 in Arbor Age Magazine: The importance of soil testing.
>
>
> Bio: Paul J. Wagner
>
> Associates degree in Ornamental Horticulture 1992; International
> Society of
> Arboriculture Certified Arborist; Certified Nursery Professional;
> Certified
> Pesticide Applicator.
>
> 13 years working in the horticultural industry; 10 years focused on
> insect,
> disease, and weed management, and soil management.
>
> The last 5 years working in the horticulture industry, he successfully
> developed, implemented, and managed organic plant health care programs. He
> worked with the first plant health care company on Long Island to
> utilize a
> commercial compost tea brewing machine.
>
> Currently he runs the New York Soil Foodweb Laboratory, and has been
> working
> with Dr. Elaine Ingham for 3 years. He helped three Long Island vineyards,
> and one Massachusetts vineyard set up successful trials this season
> managing
> foliar diseases with compost tea.
>
> Hoping to see you at the seminars!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> George Hahn, James and Carole Eddington
> WORMGOLD SOLUTIONS LLC
> P.O. Box 95, Cardiff by the Sea, CA 92007 and 1712 Tripp Court, Las Vegas,
> NV 89108, Ph. 760-942-6086, 415-898-5895, Cell 619-857-4885,
> 702-460-0935/6 FAX (760) 942-5356 email: geohahn1@juno.com,
> cjeddington@earthlink.net, www.wormgold.com
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 12:31:37 -0000
> From: "lmvine" <Lmvine1@cs.com>
> Subject: Re: Low Fungi
>
> Happy Easter all. I use 16 gallon home made unit using AES V301 (0.8
> CFM max) air pump and 3 air outlets with 2 in compost basket.
> Approx 4# compost and I expect I may have under fed. According to
> SFI I have overfed in the past so didn't want to do that. Used 2
> tblsp Maxicrop, 2 tblsp Humic Acid and 3 tblsp Org gem with the Org
> Gem spaced at intervals during brew. Also about a tsp of Saponyn
> (small amount due to foaming). NO Molasses.
>
> Brew smelled good and SFI made NO mention of bad smell in tea as as
> they have previously (even though it took 2 days for delivery).
>
> Any suggestions appreciated. Dan
>
> --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@g...>
> wrote:
> > > Any thoughts on why such high Bacteria and low Fungi when
> > > I used fungal food?? Maybe a shorter brew time since somehow
> > > bacteria apparently "took over".?
> > >
> >
> >
> > It would be helpful if we could get an idea of what size brew, how
> much compost, what machine or machine type, and quantities of
> nutrients so we can compare to our own experiences.
> >
> > Did you over feed? Did the machine extract any fungi? Too little
> oxygen? But these can only be guesses until you lay out your recipe.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jeff L
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 08:24:56 -0400
> From: "COYOTEHILLFARM" <farm@surfglobal.net>
> Subject: california
>
> Hallo All
>
> Are there any shows or educations in our field this next 30/45 days in the
> west ??
>
> Per Garp/NH
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 06:44:41 -0700
> From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
>
> I have just made my own brewer
>
> - 500 gallons - round tank with flat bottom. Approx 5' diameter.
> - 1/2 hp Gast air pump
> - for aeration I ran a 1 1/2" sched 40 pipe into the tank, formed a
> cross at the bottom, and drilled a series of 1/16th holes along one edge
> of each leg of the cross. It boils magnificently!
>
> I am waiting for a heater element to arrive so have been experimenting.
>
> First I tried water for 24 hours to test the air blower and some small
> aquarium heaters that I had been assured would heat the water. The
> aquarium heaters only got the water temperature up 2 degrees C in 24
> hours.
>
> Then I tried 10lbs of alfalfa pellets in 400 gallons of water.
> After 18 hours there was a 5 degree C rise in the water temperature
> (still with the aquarium heaters) and 4" foam.
> After 24 hours (midday) both air temp and water temp had risen to 18
> degrees C - I added 1/2 cup of mollasses.
> After 36 hours (10pm) air temp had fallen to 11 degrees C but water temp
> was still at 18. 6" foam
> After 44 hours (6am) air temp down to 8 degrees C but water still at 18!
> Now a pleasant healthy earthy smell around the brewer.
>
> The tank is under cover in my open tractor shed. It is not insulated
> and is completely open at the top, so I must be losing heat, but despite
> that it has kept up at 18 degrees C.
>
> It seems to me there must be some considerable bacterial action taking
> place even though I have no compost or activators. So far only alfalfa
> pelets and mollasses.
>
> Jason
>
> Jeff Lowenfels wrote:
>
> > Jason,
> >
> > I have made both alfalfa and Kelp teas....using compost as well. I
> > just add powdered kelp or alfalfa meal to my teas. Both add nutrients
> > to the tea, so you have to back off on other nutrients so the tea
> > won't go anaerobic.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jeff
>
>
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:30:52 EDT
> From: sbrustkern@aol.com
> Subject: Re: info request
>
> Hi Per,
>
> Check out the events calander for the ICTC, <A
> HREF="www.intlctc.org">www.intlctc.org</A>, as it has Dr.
> Elaine doing some future presentations, w\the next one being on May 10th.
> For those that have had not had the opportunity to meet and hear Elaine
> speak, this is an ideal setting. Hope this helps.
>
> Steve
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 07:29:11 +0100
> From: "Halstead" <halstead@mail.telepac.pt>
> Subject: Rumen
>
> Thomas,
>
> Surely a Rumen is part of the complex stomach system of a ruminant.
>
> Bill H.
>
> Would a bunch of fructose and other kinds of sugars extracted from a
> variety
> of fruits work better than dried cane molasses? This is often used to
> build
> up rumen in a cows stomach.
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:21:05 -0800
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@gardener.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: Low Fungi
>
> For what it is worth and realizing that we all have our own biases and
> thoughts, here is how I looked at Dan's brew which resulted in low fungi.
>
> (0.8
> CFM max)
>
> Is this enough 02 for 18 gallons? . I have notes at work and will
> check this
> number, but Bob N knows off the top of his head if this is enough
> oxygen....BOB? It may be too low.
>
> And does your configuration provide the energy to strip off the fungi? How
> "full" is your compost basket? If it is too full, it doesn't matter
> how much
> energy you put in there, you don't get the stripping action. Bob
> showed me a
> great trick: add a few wood chips to help this action.
>
> Finally, because you have two aerators in the basket and only one in the
> mix, have you considered putting all three in the mix after 12 hours
> so you
> make sure there is enough oxygen there?
>
> <<<Approx 4# compost>>
>
> Have you tried using a pound or so less? Only more pound and you are
> at the
> rec amount for 25 gallons. Again, this has a lot to do with the size
> of your
> basket.
>
>
>
> <Used 2
> tblsp Maxicrop, 2 tblsp Humic Acid and 3 tblsp Org gem with the Org
> Gem spaced at intervals during brew. Also about a tsp of Saponyn>
>
> The liquid Maxicrop has chlorine in it so I suppose should be aerated
> first.Not sure if you used the powder or liquid. I find humic acid to be
> really strong stuff. My recipes use 1 teaspoon of humic acid (powder)
> per 5
> gallons...you are using twice that.
>
> Finally, my limited experience has been that the fish H also feeds
> bacteria.
> Try making a tea using your recipe without the fish H.
>
> Of course, what makes it difficult to finally come up with a decent recipe
> is that there are so many variables. I would verify that the Oxygen is
> sufficient first. Then check how much compost is in the basket and if
> there
> is sufficient room for real stripping, and then consider a brew
> without the
> Fish H and if that didn't change things, one with lower humic.
>
> O.K. so that is what I think. No right answer here, but the above would be
> my initial thinking process as I read the report! I would discuss these
> things during my free 15 minute SFI consulting session that comes with
> each
> test!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff L
>
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:47:13 -0400
> From: soilfoodweb@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Typical brew
>
> Since it was asked on the list serve, I'll answer, even though the
> question
> was not directed to me.
>
> A typical brew has a "lag time", which is a period of time that the
> organisms are not growing, because they have to adjust to the new
> conditions
> they find themselves in, and get geared up to reproduce. Think of them
> being just like tiny people. If you get parachuted into a new country,
> survival is usually first on your mind, finding a place to live, food, and
> so forth are first on your mind, not reproduction. Same with bacteria and
> fungi.
>
> Reproduction rates will depend on:
>
> 1. water temperature (if you were dumped into 10 degree water, would
> you be
> thinking about reproduction? Me neither),
>
> 2. how many people got put in the room. opps, that should be bacteria or
> fungi, right? The more the merrier..... more offspring will be produced
> after that lag period if there were more individuals to start out with
>
> 3. how much food is there? No food, no babies. Lots of food, many more
> babies.
>
> 4. habitat has to be right. If the individuals require oxygen, calcium,
> iron, etc to reproduce, then these nutrients need to be available. Has to
> be enough space, surfaces to attach to (if you are a fungus you don't
> reproduce well hanging out free in the water), and if you need some
> friends
> to help you. The more friends about, the faster this all goes, up to the
> point that the friends are occupying in the space your babies would have
> taken. No more babies if there isn't enough space.
>
> So, if conditions are right, then typically, bacteria start growing
> rapidly
> in 3 to 5 hours. Fungi take off a bit slower, maybe about hour 8 to 10.
>
> Max growth rates usually take awhile to achieve, and is most dependent on
> food. Maximum reproduction (sum of both bacteria and fungi) usually
> occurs
> between hours 14 and 20. On average, the peak occurs at hour 20. Given
> that the brew does not go anaerobic, of course. If the brew goes
> anaerobic,
> that means that the rate of oxygen use (demand) by the bacteria and fungi
> was greater than the rate of supply of oxygen by your aerators.
> Control of
> oxygen demand is generally through the amount of food put in, given
> that all
> else is equal.
>
> So you have to have ALL things right. Then the typical brew can occur.
>
> Which is why when V. Bess measured oxygen concentration at hours 0, 8, and
> 24 it was so ridiculous for her to then say she had the data proving that
> the "tea brews" had stayed aerobic through the whole brew cycle. The max
> oxygen demand occurred during the 16 hours she didn't bother to measure
> oxygen.
>
> Anyway, fungi are attacked and consumed by anaerobic bacteria when oxygen
> content drops below 6 ppm, or there abouts. We have some great
> pictures of
> fungal hyphae happily growing until the oxygen content drops too low, and
> then, the ravening hordes of anaerobic bacteria attack and take the fungal
> strands out! You don't even know that those are fungal hyphae, they
> are so
> buried in bacteria. Only in oxygen below 6 ppm
>
> So, low fungi are OFTEN the result of too low oxygen. The fungi could
> have
> been in the compost, but they are no longer in a tea that dropped low in
> oxygen. They were consumed.
>
> So, low fungi could be the result of several possible conditions:
>
> 1. not in the compost to begin
> 2. not extracted from the compost (fabric bag is a usual culprit; poor
> movement of water through the compost, compaction of the compost in the
> basket)
> 3. no foods to feed the fungi (no soluble fungal foods in the
> compost, none
> added in the tea brew)
> 4. fungi killed by lack of aeration (anaerobic bacteria had a feast)
> 5. fungi sliced and diced by pumps (there are centripetal pumps that
> don't
> slice and dice much; don't ask me which they are, that was not my research
> that figured that out)
>
> What else did I forget?
>
> Hope this helps -
>
> Elaine Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> SFI Corvallis, OR
> SFI Port Jefferson, NY
> SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
> SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
> SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
> www.soilfoodweb.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:48:55 -0400
> From: soilfoodweb@aol.com
> Subject: Re: california
>
> Please check the SFI website. Paul Wagner will be talking in California
> sometime soon. Check the wormgold web site.
>
> I'm doing a one-day compost tea (nothing but tea) in mid-May at SFI in
> Corvallis.
>
> Elaine Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> SFI Corvallis, OR
> SFI Port Jefferson, NY
> SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
> SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
> SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
> www.soilfoodweb.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:45:06 EDT
> From: Lmvine1@cs.com
> Subject: Re: Typical brew
>
> In a message dated 4/20/2003 5:47:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> soilfoodweb@aol.com writes:
> > Anyway, fungi are attacked and consumed by anaerobic bacteria when
> oxygen
> > content drops below 6 ppm, or there abouts. We have some great pictures
> of
> > fungal hyphae happily growing until the oxygen content drops too
> low, and
> > then, the ravening hordes of anaerobic bacteria attack and take the
> fungal
> > strands out! You don't even know that those are fungal hyphae, they are
> so
> > buried in bacteria. Only in oxygen below 6 ppm
>
> Thanks Elaine, this is interesting given the comment from SFI on my latest
> tea report.
> "Notes - lots of prots(FAC's) total fungi counts are from one lg
> piece, grow
> n
> in tea, covered with bacteria."
> Underlining added for emphasis.
>
> >From Elaine's comment above it sounds like the oxygen went low and the
> bacteria ate the fungi.
>
> Dan Lynch
> Long Mountain Vineyard
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:05:17 -0700
> From: "Thomas Giannou" <thomas@tandjenterprises.com>
> Subject: Re: Typical brew
>
> Elaine,
>
> So, if there is a high total fungi count but a low active fungi count
> after
> 24-30 hours of brewing does that mean not enough fungi food was in the
> brew?
> Or could it be we ran out of food and the active fungi are dying or going
> dormant?
>
> --Thomas Giannou
> http://www.tandjenterprises.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: soilfoodweb@aol.com
> To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Typical brew
>
>
> So, low fungi are OFTEN the result of too low oxygen. The fungi could
> have been in the compost, but they are no longer in a tea that dropped low
> in oxygen. They were consumed.
>
> So, low fungi could be the result of several possible conditions:
>
> 1. not in the compost to begin
> 2. not extracted from the compost (fabric bag is a usual culprit; poor
> movement of water through the compost, compaction of the compost in the
> basket)
> 3. no foods to feed the fungi (no soluble fungal foods in the compost,
> none added in the tea brew)
> 4. fungi killed by lack of aeration (anaerobic bacteria had a feast)
> 5. fungi sliced and diced by pumps (there are centripetal pumps that
> don't slice and dice much; don't ask me which they are, that was not my
> research that figured that out)
>
> What else did I forget?
>
> Hope this helps -
>
> Elaine Ingh
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:20:22 -0800
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@gardener.com>
> Subject: Re: Typical brew
>
> Gee, one strand? What does that mean? You got the Santa Beard fungal
> growth.....does that mean only one was left in the tea as the rest were
> devoured by bacteria or did you only get one out of the compost?
>
> So, if you want to make a tea that won't go anaerobic, use less
> compost AND
> lower quantities of nutrients, IMHO.
>
> Good luck! Let us know what you do and how it comes out!
>
> But let's continue. Does your low fungal number mean you had a bad tea? I
> don't think so. I look at the fungal numbers as being really important for
> foliar coverage for disease suppression and not as important when it comes
> to foliar feeding and for soil drench. Right or wrong?
>
> Cheers,
>
> jeff l
>
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> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:08:08 -0700
> From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
>
> Further to my post below, yesterday I used 250 of the 400 gallons. Some
> I put on the floor of the chicken coop - by the end of the day this
> reduced the ammonia odour by about half. Some I put in the chickens
> water - none have keeled over yet! And the balance I put as a soil
> drench on holly trees, about 25 gallons per tree (I don't have a sprayer
> organized yet so I used the bucket of my tractor)
>
> At 4pm yesterday I added 250 gallons of well water to the 150 gallons of
> brew remaining. Air temperature was 17C After adding the water the
> temp of the new mix was 15C. I added about 12 lbs of alfalfa pellets
> and 1 cup of mollasses. This morning at 9am, 17 hours later, the air
> temperature was 8C and the brew was at 18C with 10" of foam. I have had
> two small (250 watt) aquarium heaters running. From a test with cold
> water I know they only raise the water by about 2C so I can only assume
> the balance of the water heat is coming from bacterial activity.
>
> With getting this much activity from just alfalfa pellets and mollasses
> I can't wait to see what happens when I start using compost and more
> electric heat!
>
> Is this normal to get bacterial activity from just alfalfa and mollasses?
>
> Jason
>
> Jason Austin wrote:
>
> > I have just made my own brewer
> >
> > - 500 gallons - round tank with flat bottom. Approx 5' diameter.
> > - 1/2 hp Gast air pump
> > - for aeration I ran a 1 1/2" sched 40 pipe into the tank, formed a
> > cross at the bottom, and drilled a series of 1/16th holes along one
> > edge of each leg of the cross. It boils magnificently!
> >
> > I am waiting for a heater element to arrive so have been experimenting.
> >
> > First I tried water for 24 hours to test the air blower and some small
> > aquarium heaters that I had been assured would heat the water. The
> > aquarium heaters only got the water temperature up 2 degrees C in 24
> > hours.
> >
> > Then I tried 10lbs of alfalfa pellets in 400 gallons of water.
> > After 18 hours there was a 5 degree C rise in the water temperature
> > (still with the aquarium heaters) and 4" foam.
> > After 24 hours (midday) both air temp and water temp had risen to 18
> > degrees C - I added 1/2 cup of mollasses.
> > After 36 hours (10pm) air temp had fallen to 11 degrees C but water
> > temp was still at 18. 6" foam
> > After 44 hours (6am) air temp down to 8 degrees C but water still at
> > 18! Now a pleasant healthy earthy smell around the brewer.
> >
> > The tank is under cover in my open tractor shed. It is not insulated
> > and is completely open at the top, so I must be losing heat, but
> > despite that it has kept up at 18 degrees C.
> >
> > It seems to me there must be some considerable bacterial action
> > taking place even though I have no compost or activators. So far only
> > alfalfa pelets and mollasses.
> >
> > Jason
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:54:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Robert Norsen <bnbrew@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Typical brew
>
> Elaine - your analogy is in error. Among Airforce people after
> landing ( at
> home) the second thing they intended to do was to take their parachute
> off.
> Food was way down the list. . Bob
>
> soilfoodweb@aol.com wrote:Since it was asked on the list serve, I'll
> answer,
> even though the question was not directed to me.
>
> A typical brew has a "lag time", which is a period of time that the
> organisms are not growing, because they have to adjust to the new
> conditions
> they find themselves in, and get geared up to reproduce. Think of them
> being just like tiny people. If you get parachuted into a new country,
> survival is usually first on your mind, finding a place to live, food, and
> so forth are first on your mind, not reproduction. Same with bacteria and
> fungi.
>
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> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:31:41 -0800
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@gardener.com>
> Subject: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
>
> I know that rock phosphates are good for fungal growth. My question is
> whether to use the granular rock phosphate or the powdered stuff which is
> mixed in with colloidal clay? Anyone had any experience here?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff L
> www.alaskahumus.com
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:08:38 -0700
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
>
> Jeff Lowenfels wrote:
> > I know that rock phosphates are good for fungal growth. My question is
> > whether to use the granular rock phosphate or the powdered stuff which
> > is mixed in with colloidal clay? Anyone had any experience here?
>
> 1) Tennessee rock phosphate - slightly granular - best - is available
> (Blount Feeds, Bethel, NC - Bill Blount) - P released
> quicker than Idaho rock phosphate and Florida RP
>
> 2) Idaho black rock phosphate - granular, OK - can be had in
> pelletized form
> with adidifier for more rapid breakdown - small quantities
> available by mail order
>
> 3) Florida rock phosphate & Florida soft phosphate with colloidal clay -
> both are very fine powder but still takes longer than
> any other naturally-occuring phosphate to break down and release P -
> readily available by mail order
>
> 4) Carolina Black Rock Phosphate - not available - granular - is the very
> best of all, more P and released quicker
>
> You might be interested in the archives on composting and compost tea I am
> putting together in the Agriculture Wiki:
> AgWiki - Agriculture Wiki
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/agwiki/index.php/HomePage
>
> COMPOST, COMPOST TEA and SOILFOODWEB
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/agwiki/index.php/COMPOST%2C%20COMPOST%20T
> EA%20and%20SOILFOODWEB
>
> sanet-mg list discussion on compost, compost tea and the soil food web by
> Elaine Ingham, Gil Carandang and Steve Diver:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/agriculture/composting/compost+soilfoodwe
> b+links+info2/index.html
>
> LL
> --
> L.F.London
> lfl@intrex.net
> http://market-farming.com
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:42:30 -0400
> From: laura_s@vaxxine.com
> Subject: Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
>
>
> >
> > 4) Carolina Black Rock Phosphate - not
> >available - granular - is the
> >very
> >best of all, more P and released
> >quicker
> >
>
>
> Couldn't even find it by a websearch ? can you explain why it is the very
> best ? for CT ?
>
>
> Laura Sabourin
> EcoVit Ecologically Sound Horticultural Products
> Tea-riffic Aerobic Compost Tea and Acadian Seaplant Products
> RR # 1
> St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7
> http://www.ecovit.ca
> http://www.compost-tea.ca
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:56:42 -0800
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@gardener.com>
> Subject: Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
>
> Lawrence,
>
> Thanks for the good sites on Rock Phosphate. Very useful.
>
> I guess my question is whether the clay used in the powders is
> acceptable in
> tea making....impacts etc?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:17:48 -0700
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
>
> Jeff Lowenfels wrote:
> > Lawrence,
> >
> > Thanks for the good sites on Rock Phosphate. Very useful.
> >
> > I guess my question is whether the clay used in the powders is
> > acceptable in tea making....impacts etc?
>
> Well the soft (Florida rock) phosphate with colloidal clay is lower in P
> than the rock phosphate
> but releases P more rapidly. I don't know anything at all about the
> clay or
> how it got mixed with the phosphate
> or how it reacts with soil or how it would react in compost tea. How would
> any other clay react in CT?
> I'd guess that the clay in SPWCC, when added to CT, would represent a non
> issue, based on what the clay consists of.
> Maybe the proportions of clay to phosphate would be an issue, as in
> too much
> clay for the CT for the amount of P that would be available.
> Seriously though, I don't know whay it woudn't work just fine for what you
> want to do. I would mix the rock phosphate or SPWCC with
> other rock dusts, i.e. pond fines (often very fine mesh) and even perhaps
> some New Jersey Greensand. What about a little wood ashes too?
>
> 1) On another note, I am interested in how one makes a lactobacillus
> culture
> to use with/before/after IM or 24hrCT. I am aware of
> a method of making a probiotic drink called Rejuvelac. You soak wheat
> berries overnight, next day slightly grind dthem up and immerse in a
> gallon or so of water - let stand at room temperature until it
> ferments and
> has a slightly lemony/acid/carbonated flavor, and it is ready to
> refrigerate and drink. It seems you could make large batches of this
> for use
> in making CT for a soil drench. Wonder if this would be useful
>
> 2) Based on something Robert Verzola wrote in the sanet-mg list about
> making
> IM tea starter from sticky rice and forest compost:
> To quote Robert (and Allan Balliett):
> <><><><><><><><><><>
> On 26 Dec 2002 at 21:17, Allan Balliett wrote:
>
> > I've noticed that the Korean Natural Farming Movement uses
> > topless/bottomles 'boxes' of rice that they leave sitting on forest
> > soil for several days as an innoculant for one of their EM-like
> > anaerobic brews. Is it practical for Aerobic CT makers to take
> > microbes from the forest without really disturbing the forest floor?
> > If so, what would be a practical way for US farmers to do so?
>
> This is how we learned to do it, based on instructions from friends
> who market EM locally. (Actually, "we" is my wife more than me, as
> she mastered the whole thing and I was mostly a kibitzer.)
>
> She used sticky rice, boiled as usual. She put the rice, still on the
> pot where she boiled it, on the mini- (micro- actually) forest behind
> our home. The pot was covered with cloth, then covered lightly with
> dried leaves from the ground.
>
> After several days, the rice was covered with what looked like
> loosely fluffed cotton filaments. The beneficial fungi, I suppose.
>
> Then she mixed a brew of water (boiled water, cooled down) and
> brown sugar (organically processed) -- I can ask for the ratios later
> if anyone is interested -- put it in a big clay pot, added the fluffy
> material from the rice pot, covered the clay pot with cloth, and then
> let it brew. This was supposed to be the "mother" liquid or starter. It
> can be kept indefinitely by mixing a new brew of sugar solution and
> adding spoonful or so of starter to it.
>
> This is how EM is supposed to be made. The final product is sold
> locally as some kind of soil, compost and foliar elixir (with a lot of
> positive testimonies). It has been sprayed on chicken and hog
> manure and these quickly lose their smell. In fact, I've visited a
> place where the hog pen did not smell at all, because they say they
> spray the EM regularly on the bedding.
>
> It appears to me, however, from what I heard on this list, that this
> would be anaerobic tea. I've never smelled it really carefully, just a
> quick sniff, and I don't remember it stinking at all. Certainly, there
> was no active aeration (no sprays or air bubbles for instance). It
> can be done even where there is no electricity. (Important for us...)
>
> My wife comes from a culture which still brews their own coconut-
> based wine, banana-based vinegar, etc. so the process was familiar
> to her.
>
> I wonder if it might be better to optimize one brewing process for
> the bacterial output, and optimize a separate brewing process for
> the fungal output, and then spray the amounts indicated for the
> ideal bacterial-to-fungi ratio?
>
> Is there a simple test (smell again, perhaps?) to determine if the
> brew is predominantly bacterial or fungal?
>
> <....>
>
> Roberto Verzola
> Philippines
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
> Last Winter I took some leaf litter and compost off the ground in a wooded
> area and placed it on top of
> a small plastic container of leftover rice. I put this outdoors in a metal
> barbecue grill away from light and rain.
> This Spring I had a look at it and saw that the container was filled
> with a
> soild cake of variously-colored
> soft, slightly damp material and the leaf litter was still on top but had
> become part of the mass. It had a strong
> fungus smell, not particularly sweet (like tempeh is) and had patches of
> what might have been mold and others that were a fine fuzz
> that might have been bacterial growth. I speculated whether this material
> could be used as starter to make even larger quantities
> of fungal matter which could, in turn, be used to make large batches of
> fungus-dominated compost that could be directly applied to garden
> soil for enrichment. Could this become a procedure, basically a dry
> rather
> than a tea-oriented one, worth considering within an array of
> methods used in a soil enrichment program?
>
> Thanks for any feedback.
>
> LL
>
> --
> L.F.London
> lfl@intrex.net
> http://market-farming.com
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:57:47 -0700
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: Re: colloidal clay and rock phosphate
>
> Jeff Lowenfels wrote:
> > Lawrence,
> >
> > Fascinating post. What would have happened if you left the rice out
> > uncovered? I know what grows in some of the stuff we leave in our rice
> > cooker over the weekend.....
>
> That's what Robert recommended - put it out in the elements uncovered in a
> bottomless container on the ground
> - which may be the better way to make the fungal cake. Still it was
> interesting to see what would happen in
> a dark area with no supplemental watering, only humidity and condensation
> from inside the steel barrel of the BBQ grill.
> Since RV's traditional methods is what is widely used one could assume
> that
> a preponderance of beneficial fungi
> would evolve in the starter material or substrate. Perhaps a different
> ratio
> of bacteria/fungi grew in my dry,
> over 90% aerobic culture, maybe even no bacteria at all though it
> occured to
> me that over the duration the fungi eventually died and became
> host for bacterial growth. Maybe the product of the dry culture would
> contribute to the diverity of beneficial microorganisms in compost if
> added.
>
> LL
> --
> L.F.London
> lfl@intrex.net
> http://market-farming.com
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:57:49 +0800
> From: "Anthony" <boofq@wn.com.au>
> Subject: Re: Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
>
> jason,
> 1/16 holes will cause your tea to boil great, however they are probably to
> big to diffuse enough O2, especially when they need it most. I did the
> same
> thing and i wasnt getting enough O2 into it. I sourced some 0.4mm drill
> bits- equivalent to about a 1/50th (you need a few as they tend to snap
> pretty well). Also attached some of that seepage hose that have even
> smaller
> holes. Still boils great, but the bubbles are just that much smaller! Even
> when you switch it off it bubble like a bottle of mineral water for
> minutes!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Austin
> To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
>
>
> I have just made my own brewer
>
> - 500 gallons - round tank with flat bottom. Approx 5' diameter.
> - 1/2 hp Gast air pump
> - for aeration I ran a 1 1/2" sched 40 pipe into the tank, formed a
> cross
> at the bottom, and drilled a series of 1/16th holes along one edge of each
> leg of the cross. It boils magnificently!
>
> I am waiting for a heater element to arrive so have been experimenting.
>
> First I tried water for 24 hours to test the air blower and some small
> aquarium heaters that I had been assured would heat the water. The
> aquarium
> heaters only got the water temperature up 2 degrees C in 24 hours.
>
> Then I tried 10lbs of alfalfa pellets in 400 gallons of water.
> After 18 hours there was a 5 degree C rise in the water temperature
> (still
> with the aquarium heaters) and 4" foam.
> After 24 hours (midday) both air temp and water temp had risen to 18
> degrees C - I added 1/2 cup of mollasses.
> After 36 hours (10pm) air temp had fallen to 11 degrees C but water temp
> was still at 18. 6" foam
> After 44 hours (6am) air temp down to 8 degrees C but water still at 18!
> Now a pleasant healthy earthy smell around the brewer.
>
> The tank is under cover in my open tractor shed. It is not
> insulated and
> is completely open at the top, so I must be losing heat, but despite
> that it
> has kept up at 18 degrees C.
>
> It seems to me there must be some considerable bacterial action taking
> place even though I have no compost or activators. So far only alfalfa
> pelets and mollasses.
>
> Jason
>
> Jeff Lowenfels wrote:
>
> Jason,
>
> I have made both alfalfa and Kelp teas....using compost as well. I
> just
> add powdered kelp or alfalfa meal to my teas. Both add nutrients to the
> tea, so you have to back off on other nutrients so the tea won't go
> anaerobic.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
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> [This message contained attachments]
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> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:05:36 -0700
> From: Jason Austin <jason.austin@shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
>
> Hi Anthony
>
> Thanks for the tip. I don't have a DO meter yet but I will check the
> oxygen level soon. I have about 60 holes which I thought would be
> enough but the meter will be the judge!
>
> Jason
>
> Anthony wrote:
>
> > jason,
> > 1/16 holes will cause your tea to boil great, however they are
> > probably to big to diffuse enough O2, especially when they need it
> > most. I did the same thing and i wasnt getting enough O2 into it. I
> > sourced some 0.4mm drill bits- equivalent to about a 1/50th (you need
> > a few as they tend to snap pretty well). Also attached some of that
> > seepage hose that have even smaller holes. Still boils great, but the
> > bubbles are just that much smaller! Even when you switch it off it
> > bubble like a bottle of mineral water for minutes!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jason Austin <mailto:jason.austin@shaw.ca>
> > To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 9:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Alfalfa tea and Kelp tea
> >
> > I have just made my own brewer
> >
> > - 500 gallons - round tank with flat bottom. Approx 5' diameter.
> > - 1/2 hp Gast air pump
> > - for aeration I ran a 1 1/2" sched 40 pipe into the tank, formed
> > a cross at the bottom, and drilled a series of 1/16th holes along
> > one edge of each leg of the cross. It boils magnificently!
> >
> > I am waiting for a heater element to arrive so have been
> > experimenting.
> >
> > First I tried water for 24 hours to test the air blower and some
> > small aquarium heaters that I had been assured would heat the
> > water. The aquarium heaters only got the water temperature up 2
> > degrees C in 24 hours.
> >
> > Then I tried 10lbs of alfalfa pellets in 400 gallons of water.
> > After 18 hours there was a 5 degree C rise in the water
> > temperature (still with the aquarium heaters) and 4" foam.
> > After 24 hours (midday) both air temp and water temp had risen to
> > 18 degrees C - I added 1/2 cup of mollasses.
> > After 36 hours (10pm) air temp had fallen to 11 degrees C but
> > water temp was still at 18. 6" foam
> > After 44 hours (6am) air temp down to 8 degrees C but water still
> > at 18! Now a pleasant healthy earthy smell around the brewer.
> >
> > The tank is under cover in my open tractor shed. It is not
> > insulated and is completely open at the top, so I must be losing
> > heat, but despite that it has kept up at 18 degrees C.
> >
> > It seems to me there must be some considerable bacterial action
> > taking place even though I have no compost or activators. So far
> > only alfalfa pelets and mollasses.
> >
> > Jason
> >
>
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:28:04 +0800
> From: "TaChung Huang" <tachung_h@yahoo.com>
> Subject: The usage of CaO
>
>
> Elaine:
> How would I affect or hurt the micro-organism population if I apply CaO
> (Calcium Oxide) to the soil? I suppose that mixing water (H2O) with CaO
> would release a lot of heat. Would this kind of heat destroy
> micro-organism?
>
> I want to use CaO to supplement the Ca to the soil.
>
>
>
>
> Regards
> TaChung Huang (¶À¤j©¾)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lmvine [mailto:Lmvine1@cs.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 9:01 PM
> To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Typical brew
>
>
> --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff@g...>
> wrote:
> > Gee, one strand? What does that mean? You got the Santa Beard
> fungal growth.....does that mean only one was left in the tea as the
> rest were devoured by bacteria or did you only get one out of the
> compost?
>
> Jeff, I take it to mean that there was only one strand in the ml or
> so of tea analyzed. I expect the "SC beard" survived but most or
> all was attacked by anerobic bacteria due to low oxygen at some
> point in the brewing process.
>
> > But let's continue. Does your low fungal number mean you had a bad
> tea? I don't think so. I look at the fungal numbers as being really
> important for foliar coverage for disease suppression and not as
> important when it comes to foliar feeding and for soil drench.
> Right or wrong?
> >
> > Cheers, jeff l
>
> It is my understanding that I want fungal dominated tea for a soil
> drench on my grapes. Is that correct Elaine?
>
> Jeff, thanks for your analysis.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
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