From: soilfoodweb@aol.com
Date: Fri Feb 21 2003 - 10:03:58 EST
Hi Jeff - 
I have shown Ed Neff and Jerry Erickson the data that prove the SoilSoup 
machine doesn't make compost tea.  Their response was to start a campaign 
with their distributors to say that fungi don't grow in compost tea.  
So, I demonstrated that fungi DO grow in compost tea.  
So then they told their distributors that fungi aren't important in compost 
tea.  
So now we're showing just how important fungi are in occupying leaf surfaces 
and keeping the "bad guy" fungi from getting a foothold on the leaf or root 
surface.  
So now Ed Neff tells people that you can hold your tea for any length of time 
without aeration and it doesn't hurt anything.  
I think Ed got this point of view from a graduate student from Oregon State 
University.  In Steve's thesis he brewed some anaerobic teas that ON PLATE 
COUNT MEDIA, showed inhibition of pathogens.  
Any chance those toxic compounds would also inhibit and kill plant cells?  
Any chance those toxic compounds would also kill the beneficial organisms on 
the plant surfaces?  Not a thought on the part of the University folk he was 
working with that this might be the case.  
These are TOXIC compounds being produced in anaerobic conditions.  They are 
no different from any other pesticide.
But you don't know what toxins you are dealing with, or in what 
concentration.   
It is sad that we have to go through this, but neither SoilSoup nor Growing 
Solutions wants to hear that their machines only make bacterial tea.  They 
try to defend their products by trying to marginalize me.  But no matter what 
they may or may not say about me, when those machines go anaerobic, we're 
talking about some serious toxins being produced.    
So, the best thing is if everyone who reads this makes sure that this message 
gets out.  
The message:  
1.  Neither SoilSoup nor Growing Solutions make compost tea machines.  
2.  They make bacterial tea machines, and you can't expect the same benefits 
from bacterial tea that you can get from aerobic compost tea.  
3.  You may well be dealing with some nasty compounds being made in 
anaerobic, bacterial tea machines, no better, and maybe worse, than any other 
pesticide.  
Can you get some benefits from bacterial tea?  Sure.  You can kill things, 
outright kill things, with those solutions.  If the toxic material in an 
anaerobic tea is low enough to kill pathogens but not the plant cells, you'll 
see some interesting effects.  
But what is the cut off where the toxins go from not-killing plant cells to 
killing plant cells?  Do either SoilSoup or Growing Solutions monitor that?  
They don't seem to even have a clue what dangers exist if the teas go 
seriously anaerobic.  
Will the USDA or FDA recognize this problem?  Some really nasty bacteria can 
start growing in anaerobic bacterial tea - bacteria like Clostridium 
botulinum.  Talk about dangerous!  
So, can everyone undertake the mission to let everyone know what the problems 
are here?   Call up the nurseries and distributors that sell these 
potentially anaerobic materials, and explain the potential problems.  At 
least if the people selling the machines understand what they need to be 
saying to their clients, maybe we can save the situation.  
What is it that needs to be said?  Anaerobic tea can make some seriously 
toxic materials.  Yes, those materials can kill plant pathogens, but they can 
also kill plants, and could be harmful to people.  Increase the aeration in 
the machines so the anaerobic bacteria that make those toxic compounds do not 
grow.  Make sure the teas stay aerobic.  Make sure the beneficial fungi grow 
in the tea, as well as beneficial aerobic bacteria.  
Doesn't aerobic tea also make toxic compounds?  No.  The mechanisms for 
aerobic tea to prevent diseases is entirely different.  Read the information 
on the ICTC website.  They have a good explaination of how aerobic compost 
tea works. 
You cannot hold bacterial teas for any length of time without aeration.  
If you hold bacterial tea more than a few hours without aeration, you have to 
add 3% phosphoric acid to stop anaerobic metabolism.  You then kill half the 
species present in the tea, but that's better than making something that can 
harm people.    
Can we all work to shut down this problem before it gets out-of-hand?  
Thanks - 
Elaine
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com
SFI Oregon, USA
SFI Australia
SFI New York
SFI Europe
SFI New Zealand
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