[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [compost_tea] Re Molassas and fungi again



Hum, something seems to have messed up on the transfer of the SECOND PART of my previous e-mail, let me try again.....

The second statement made in the quote that Jeff sent is not correct either.  FUNGI finish the process of making humus, not bacteria.  BACTERIA START the process of decomposition by using the easy-to-use sugars, the simple, rapid growth food resources.

Fungi come along and start making the complex "waste products", which are what we call humus, or more specifically, humic acid.  Highly condensed (and I mean way beyond the simple humic materials in molasses), very recalcitrant, fungal-food only humic acid.

What's the difference between humus and humic acid?  Ah!  Important distinction!  Humus includes the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes, roots, simple organic matter (simple sugars, amino acids, proteins, simple carbohydrates, lipids and a few thousand more kinds of simple compounds) and ever-more complex organic matter such as polysaccharides (which means multiple single, simple sugars bound together in ever-inceasingly complex, branched forms), amino-sugars, hormones, fats, lipopolysaccharides, fulvic acids (all of the above branched and bound together in intermediate molecular weight fractions), and humic acids (all of the above bound together in very complex tertiary or three-dimensional binding complexes). 

So, humic acid is a part of humus.  But it is the fungi that really do the humic acid production job.  They are helped out by earthworms, and microarthropods too.  Let's not forget that they are very involved in helping fungi maintain dominance over bacterial processes in the "real world" of soil structure.  Real humic acid requires ALL of these organisms to be present.

Why would someone, as from the quote below, say that addition of molasses to wood waste improve fungal growth?  Because wood waste has a carbon to nitrogen ratio of, depending on which woods were actually used, somewhere in the region of 200 to 600.  Rapid breakdown requires a bit more nitrogen than is present in most wood. 

Addition of pure sugar to a wood pile adds how much nitrogen?  Flat nothing.  sugar is nearly 100% carbon - and a little oxygen and hydrogen.  No nitrogen. 

So, adding simple sugars to a wood pile doesn't help.  Addition of molasses adds some nitrogen, but not enough to get the bacteria going much, but enough N to help certain species of fungi out. 

So, under this particular application, molasses, NOT SIMPLE SUGARS, can help fungi. 

But remember, you have to pay attention to the WHOLE system, and apply the principles correctly.  

Think things through......
------
Malt contains a fair number of simple sugars, which gets bacteria growing rapidly, takes down the oxygen, which MAY lead to lack of oxygen, which may lead to anaerobic bacteria (including E. coli and other undesirables) growing.  Some anaerobic bacteria appear to take out the beneficial fungi as well.

What if you didn't have those fungi-attacking anaerobic bacteria, which is what Steve Diver suggests in his post?  Interesting if the bacteria in EM suppress the anaerobic bacteria that take out the fungi.   NEED DATA!!!!

Anyway, back to the soybean....
Soybean meal has fewer simple sugars than the malt, so the bacteria don't get going as fast, which means less danger of getting bacteria growing, less danger of anaerobic conditions.  

CERTAIN fish preparations appear to do the same thing with respect to suppressing bacterial growth, and thus anaerobic conditions.  Could it be that certain fish have more oil that suppress the E. coli?  Sure!  But under all conditions?  NEED DATA!!!!!!

Seems like that's all I say these days.... NEED DATA!!!!  Scientists, we are blessed one-track. 

"Molasses favors fungi over bacteria to speed up process
Fungi produce enzymes that can break down lignin and cellulose. Bacteria
then take over and finish the job forming humus. What takes so long is that
most composting is not done with fungus initially. The key is to favor fungi
right from the very start, as fungi can break down ligno-cellulosic waste
without high temperatures. It has been demonstrated that the addition of
molasses to the pile will favor fungi over bacteria and can speed up the
whole process dramatically. 500 ml per 4 kg (2 pints per 10 pounds dry
waste) waste works good and probably adds trace minerals. Molasses is cheap
in many areas and may be available from feed stores or sugar factories.
Either cane or beet can be used"

This seems contra to what we do with teas visa vis fungi. Any ideas or is
the author of the bit simply "wrong>"  Seems it is time to do a test in
compost.  Incidently, the use of soy bean meal seems more effective than
malt at growing fungis in compost......all that stuff with BRAGGS which is
just liquid soy for the most part....why didn't we think of soy bean meal
earlier?

Cheers,

Jeff L

Happy Holidays!

Elaine
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.