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[compost_tea] Soil Soup technical CT forum & info sharing



It may be a mistake to think those using the Soil Soup equipment have no awareness of the fungal possibilities of tea. In curiosity I finally looked at the soil soup web site . The site has a technical forum were those making tea share information. A question about growing fungal tea and the needed nutrients was posted. the only answer, at the time I read the list two days ago, included this...

As for where to get ingredients, I would
guess that SoilSoup has them. If not, I
am at a loss as they are the only ones
that actively pursue a fungal dominated
tea mix.

This is not a slam against any other group simply a person using a single recourse without knowing of further options. Since it is an open forum people wishing to further knowledge on the technical aspects of brewing compost tea must all be welcome. I did not post research from members of this forum but if the originators of some very good fungal food experiments should wish to post on the Soil Soup forum I believe there might be some very grateful recipients.







On Friday, February 21, 2003, at 07:03 AM, soilfoodweb@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jeff -

I have shown Ed Neff and Jerry Erickson the data that prove the SoilSoup machine doesn't make compost tea.  Their response was to start a campaign with their distributors to say that fungi don't grow in compost tea. 

So, I demonstrated that fungi DO grow in compost tea. 

So then they told their distributors that fungi aren't important in compost tea. 

So now we're showing just how important fungi are in occupying leaf surfaces and keeping the "bad guy" fungi from getting a foothold on the leaf or root surface. 

So now Ed Neff tells people that you can hold your tea for any length of time without aeration and it doesn't hurt anything. 

I think Ed got this point of view from a graduate student from Oregon State University.  In Steve's thesis he brewed some anaerobic teas that ON PLATE COUNT MEDIA, showed inhibition of pathogens. 

Any chance those toxic compounds would also inhibit and kill plant cells?  Any chance those toxic compounds would also kill the beneficial organisms on the plant surfaces?  Not a thought on the part of the University folk he was working with that this might be the case. 

These are TOXIC compounds being produced in anaerobic conditions.  They are no different from any other pesticide.

But you don't know what toxins you are dealing with, or in what concentration.  

It is sad that we have to go through this, but neither SoilSoup nor Growing Solutions wants to hear that their machines only make bacterial tea.  They try to defend their products by trying to marginalize me.  But no matter what they may or may not say about me, when those machines go anaerobic, we're talking about some serious toxins being produced.   

So, the best thing is if everyone who reads this makes sure that this message gets out. 

The message: 

1.  Neither SoilSoup nor Growing Solutions make compost tea machines. 
2.  They make bacterial tea machines, and you can't expect the same benefits from bacterial tea that you can get from aerobic compost tea. 
3.  You may well be dealing with some nasty compounds being made in anaerobic, bacterial tea machines, no better, and maybe worse, than any other pesticide. 

Can you get some benefits from bacterial tea?  Sure.  You can kill things, outright kill things, with those solutions.  If the toxic material in an anaerobic tea is low enough to kill pathogens but not the plant cells, you'll see some interesting effects. 

But what is the cut off where the toxins go from not-killing plant cells to killing plant cells?  Do either SoilSoup or Growing Solutions monitor that?  They don't seem to even have a clue what dangers exist if the teas go seriously anaerobic. 

Will the USDA or FDA recognize this problem?  Some really nasty bacteria can start growing in anaerobic bacterial tea - bacteria like Clostridium botulinum.  Talk about dangerous! 

So, can everyone undertake the mission to let everyone know what the problems are here?   Call up the nurseries and distributors that sell these potentially anaerobic materials, and explain the potential problems.  At least if the people selling the machines understand what they need to be saying to their clients, maybe we can save the situation. 

What is it that needs to be said?  Anaerobic tea can make some seriously toxic materials.  Yes, those materials can kill plant pathogens, but they can also kill plants, and could be harmful to people.  Increase the aeration in the machines so the anaerobic bacteria that make those toxic compounds do not grow.  Make sure the teas stay aerobic.  Make sure the beneficial fungi grow in the tea, as well as beneficial aerobic bacteria. 

Doesn't aerobic tea also make toxic compounds?  No.  The mechanisms for aerobic tea to prevent diseases is entirely different.  Read the information on the ICTC website.  They have a good explaination of how aerobic compost tea works.

You cannot hold bacterial teas for any length of time without aeration. 

If you hold bacterial tea more than a few hours without aeration, you have to add 3% phosphoric acid to stop anaerobic metabolism.  You then kill half the species present in the tea, but that's better than making something that can harm people.   

Can we all work to shut down this problem before it gets out-of-hand? 

Thanks -

Elaine
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com
SFI Oregon, USA
SFI Australia
SFI New York
SFI Europe
SFI New Zealand

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