Cheers for the info Paul and Kirk. Anyone else with some advice? Rene and Lorraine van Raders The Green Piece Permaculture Garden PO Box 389 Malanda, Beautiful Far North Queensland 4885 Australia Int. 61 740 965138 Australia 07 40 965138 email rvraders@tpgi.com.au If enough people knock there heads against a brick wall it will fall down Ashleigh Brilliant