Subject: Re: one-straw revolution
From: dianne@lox.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Dianne Murray)
Organization: Achilles Internet Ltd.
Date: 10 Aug 1997 07:16:30 GMT
Message-ID: <MOD$970810.22602@rec.gardens.ecosystems>
References: <MOD$970805.6422@rec.gardens.ecosystems> <MOD$970807.2486@rec.gardens.ecosystems>


In article <MOD$970807.2486@rec.gardens.ecosystems>, William D Hulet wrote:
>On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, Bill Robinson wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that as one goes from 'chemical' gardening
>> to 'organic' gardening, some simply discontinue the use of
>> materials that are considered toxic or environmentally
>> destructive and they replace that material with one of lower
>> toxicity; i.e., going from something like diazinon to something
>> like Safer's Soap. The goal of killing some particular pest might
>> remain the same and this replacement may or may not be require a different
>> amount of work.

This makes sense to me, though I thnk of it more as a different *type*
of work, rather thna a different amount. Hadn picking tomato bugs is a pain
but that is what we did in our families garden. We did have a rototiller
and we did add manure every year, that and the compost that we made simply by
piling up scraps at the very back corner of the yard and letting it rot.

But we never sprayed. I do remember dad dusting for something when we had
a really bad infestation *once*.

>> I have the idea that going 'organic' also involves a greater use
>> of environmentally friendly cultural practices. Hand weeding
>> and the generous use of compost as a mulch rather than using RoundUp, etc.
>> Really getting fussy and seeking out the right
>> plants that are truly disease resistant other then using Funginex
>> and so on.
I think of finding the right plants as a process of experiment. this seems
to me to be more fun than hard work. Of course I live close to *two* [1]
farmer's markets -> so if I blow it, well, there is still food to put
on the table.

> The examples that are given in the _One Straw Revolution_ are of
>drastically rethinking the basic ideas of agriculture. Fukuoka grew rice
>without flooding his fields, plowing the soil, planting the seed, weeding,
>or even removing the straw from the field. This involved a _lot_ less
>work, and yet he was still able to out-produce his neighbours.
Perhaps this method was better suited to the ecosystem he was gardening in,
then?

I mean - I wouldn't be growing rice here. Some plants in some zones require
a hell of a lot more work. Others will grow as obligingly as weeds!

> What this says to me is that an enormous amount of what people do
>in agriculture is "monkey see, monkey do" without any understanding of
>what is going on.
Yes - and not just in agriculture! Trick is -> that's how humans usually
learn - by observing how the others do it.

Of course there is usually more than one right way to do anything
as in right = will work. Which is *best* well, that requires analysing
the whole specific situation usually though there are always general
guidelines that can be abstracted.

> Another example is the way he found his vegetables growing like
>weeds. We all see examples of "volunteers" in our gardens, but why do we
>assume that lambs-quarter, dandelion, and burdock should establish
>themselves without human intervention, but not the vegetables we like to
>eat? Fukuoka simply saw that we produce the situations that what we call
Bingo.

>"weeds" need to thrive, and decided to figure out what different
>situations would allow "vegetables" to similarly prosper. He found that
>by making some simple changes he was able to create situations where the
>veggies took over and the weeds went all to Hell.
Each time we till the soil we are stirring up the seed bank in the soil...
and that bank is full of weed seeds.

Hence the emphasis on no tillage as well as saving soil from erosion.

> Part of the process is also understanding the nature of where we
>live. When I was a kid we never even tried to grow vegetables from the
>cabbage family because we knew the only way we could control the
>butterflies that ate them was by using pesticides. Why bother? There
What about intercropping and companion planting?

>were a lot of other good veggies that grew well and never suffered from
>pests. We also never had a problem with coons because my dad planted a row
>of sweet corn around our woodlot especially for them.
I've found volunteer lillies in my yard from
squirrels planting and forgetting where they put their "stash" !

>> For what its worth, I don't use any pesticides - including those
>> materials considered "organic" - and rely totally on the use
>> of environmentally friendly cultural practices for pest control.
Me too.

I had a bad encounter with some organo-chlorine pesticide once [this
was to control a roach problem indoors :( ]

I got a lungfull by accident and spent my evening in the emergency ward
staring at a vial of atropine and sucking back straight oxygen.

Yucko!

Since then I've been even more leery of pesticides than I was
to start with... though I recognize there are 4 classes and not
all are persistant or work as a nerve poison.

>> I am reasonably satisfied with the level of control just plain,
>> simple gardening gives but I also find it to be hard work. I don't think
>> the "One-Straw Revolution" really addresses that issue.
I think with advance planning you can eliminate a lot more work than
most people think. Although reading and thnking and planning is also
work, of course. :)

> The one "critique" that does make sense is the fact that big,
>monoculture factory farms will never be able to use his methods. But I
>agree with E..F. Schumacher that there needs to be a renaissance of
>horticulture in our society, with a majority of people learning to grow
>most of their food themselves. Otherwise, the level of environmental
>knowledge will stay so low that democratic societies will continue to be
>unable to make intelligent choices involving the future of the earth.

Has anyone read Colin Tudge's "Future Food"? This is definitely a seeming
goal of his.

i think the agri-food biz is dumbing peopple's food smarts way down and
this is NOT good. Of course everyone moving to urban areas is also
leading that direction.

But people can grown food in cities and often do successfully.

Just look at the Victory gardens in Britain during the 2nd world war.
Or modern allotment and/or community gardening projects slowly springing up
all over.

-D.