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Oppiliappan List Archive: Message 00074 Jul 2003

 
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Post 5

Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer,

Sri Sukumar, at whose behest the post containing details of 11 rudhraas etcwas 
sent to the list, writes - quote - 
"There is a comparison between Lord Krishna and Lord Raghurama by mentioning 
that while Krishna is Surya (as propounded by him in Bhagavath geethaa), Rama 
has been mentioned as 'Suryasya Surya'. My ignorant mind thinks that there is 
not an iota of difference between Krishna and Rama, in as far as their para 
thathva is concerned. May be there is a difference in their leelas (as 
propounded by Narada while explaining the slOka - 
vadanthi thathva vidastha thvam yathgyanamadhvayam; 
brahmethi paramathmethi bhagavan ithi shabdyathe) 
but both are Parabrahma, although they are avataara purushas and are being 
called by various names by gyanis". - unquote.

I, earlier, thought that this kind of an impression of comparing who is great - 
raamaa or krishNa - will be created in the minds of bhakthaas when they read 
"raamaa as sooryasya soorya" as said by mother sumithraa and krishNaas soorya 
only as said in bhagavath geetha 10 -21. 
I just wanted to continue the topic and in the run would have expalined there 
is no such difference or comparison at all between raamaa and krishNa. 

Further, I am more cautious not to do such a comparison between raama and 
krishNa, that too since I am a krishNa bhaktha. [as now established amongstthe 
bhakthaas in the various lists where in my name is found as a subscriber - 
perhaps our respected moderator of this list will vouch that without 
hesitation]. 

But since the point is already raised by sri sukumar, it is my bounden dutyto 
clarify the position immediately [incidentally he does not express there is not 
an iota of difference between two] - to say a very firm - yes only- there is NO 
TRACE OF DOUBT even to say this- it is same paramaathma in btwo different 
avathaarams.

[I would request sri sukumar to give the source of this slOkam - it will bevery 
nice of him.].

Now by way of additional clarification - In the same bhagavath geethaa in the 
15th chapter titled "purushOththama yOgam", in slOkams 12 and 13 sri krishna 
says - same sri krishNa who says "aadhithyaanaam aham vishNu" -  

yadhaadhithya gatham thEjO jagadh BhaasayathE~khilam|
yach chandhramasi yachchaagnou thath thEjO vidhDhi maamaakam || - 15 -12

meaning: "oh arjuna" which is understood since whiole geetha is an address to 
arjuna - "understand that effulgence which emanates from the sun illuminating 
the entire universe, and that effulgence which is in the moon, and infire, know 
it is from me".

gaam aavisya cha Bhoothaani Dhaasyaamyaham Ojasaa|
pushNaami cha OshaDhee: sarvaa: sOmO Bhoothvaa rasa aathmaka: || 15-13

meaning - "Oh arjuna, understood - "permeating through out the planetary 
systems, I maintain all moving and stationary beings by my potency, and having 
become the essence of moon, I nourish all plant life".

Since the planetary system includes sun, without doubt, as established in 
modern day scienc also, I think from these two slOkams the supreme nature ofthe 
lord is clear - that purushOththama, my krishna, - is the light provider or 
energy provider to the soorya himself - means "sooryasya soorya".
  
Now on this - purusha uththama or uththama purusha - in samskrith grammar 
uththama purusha means first person. With a little pun on the first person -yes 
- krishNa is the first person - primality of all - sooryasya soorya - all are 
only second to him.

Like "aadhithyaanaam aham vishNu: --- nakshathraaNam aham sasee" in bhagavath 
geetha 10 -21which is called vibhoothi yOgam, in the "udhDhava geethaa" also 
same bhagavaan sri krishNa says -

airaavatham gajEndhraaNaam yaadhasaam varuNam praBhum|
thapathaam dhyumathaam sooryam manushyaaNaam cha Bhoopathim ||

slokam 17 chapter 16, 11th skandham of srimadh Bhaagavatham [again titled 
vibhoothi vivaraNam] .

Meaning: amongst the elephants, I am airaavatham [the elephant of king 
dhEvEndhran], amongst the waters [or rivers or aquatic monsters] I am varuNa, 
the god of water and rain,
I am the sun among the burning [thapathaam] and splendorous objects or subjects 
like moon, sun, stars etc, 
I am the king among the human beings - manushaya.
 
vaasudhEvO Bhagavathaam thvam thu BhaagavathEshu aham |
kimpurushaaNaam hanumaan vidhyaaDharaaNaam sudharsana: ||

slokam 29 chapter 16, 11th skandham of srimadh Bhaagavatham

meaning: I am vaasudhEva among the gods [bhagavaans]
I am you, among the bhaagavathaas servants of the lord, [oh, udhDhava, for it 
is addressed to udhDhava - like arjuna in bhagavath geethaa]
I am hanumaan among the kimpurushaas - mystical subjects
I am sudharsana among the vidhyaadharaas - the servants of siva.

Thus while describing his superiority, the lord says I am that 'greatest' among 
known great things. 

I have to add two points here - 
Yaadhas means - any large aquatic animal, sea monster, river, water, etc.
Yaadhu means water.
This word is a special used in srimadh bhaagavatha puraaNam.

vidhyaadharaas are servants of siva living in himaalayaas [see P 964 col 1 
Monier williams] . sudharsana mentioned here has nothing to do with the 
sudharsana - the chakra or discus - a weapon of the supreme lord naaraayaNa. 
This "sudharsana" is the son of agni and his wife sudharsanaa serving siva [see 
monier williams p 1224 col 2]. 

Trust no such comparison is even thought about on aspects between krishna and 
raama.

Continuing the sooryasya soorya, mother sumithraa further says

naarhaa thvam sochithum dhEvi yasyaasthE raaghavas sutha: |
na hi raamaathparO lOkE vidhyathE sathpathhE sthhitha: || 

srimadh vaalmeeki raamaayaNam ayOdhyaa kaaNdam sargam 44 slOkam 26

dhEvi = oh, queen kousalyaa! 
yasyaa: = which 
thE = to you 
raaghava: = raamaa 
sutha: = is your son
thvam = you as such 
na arhaa = are not deserving; 
sOchithum = to grieve 
na vidhyathE = none is there 
lOkE = in the world 
para: = other 
raamaath = than raamaa 
sthhitha: = who is established 
sathpathhE = in right path

Meaning: Oh, queen! You, whose son is raamaa, ought not to grieve, for noneis 
established in right path in the world than raaamaa.

Points: 
1. See the beauty here. None is established in this world in the right 
pathother than raamaa. So whatever he does is right. 
2. At this stage of raamaayaNam only the killing of thaataka was done - 
initially with a slight hesitation - by raama. 
All others are only good things like ahalya episode, seethaa vivvaham, 
dhasarathaa's proposal of coroation and raama leaving for forest as per 
father's orders. 
3. But mother says whatever raamaa does is right. Can this be extended to vaali 
vadham also.

We will continue in next post.

Dhasan

Vasudevan m.g.




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