shreemathi jayashree; Actually what i wanted to know is even for female child to be born (From the description of panchagni vidya (Chandogya upanishad) we know that the soul stays in the male body for 2 months and it is in man that it gets ready or 'synthesised' to be born. The moment it enters the womb, it is said it is born.) the procedure must be same since soul does not have any sexdescrimination etc., etc., i suppose . I felt there has to be some other reason too .SO, i wanted to clarify regarding if the procedural difference exisits for female baby and male baby birth. I always used to think it is strain for the female to undergo such eleoberate procedures as women are considered to be delicate. however it is just physical aspect i was thinking. thank you pranamams krishnapriya Jayasree Saranathan <jayasree.saranathan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. Dear Smt krishna priya, Pranams. I am glad that you have come up with these two questions. Let me attempt the answers. ------------------------------------------------ On 11/20/05, krishna priya <krishna.neela2001@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > shree: > >> Madam,after reading the part -12 posting in oppiliappan - > regarding male issue , i have small doubt how is female baby is born? is > there any difference?if so how?As per upanishad texts because science sees > no difference in it .Male baby is very important in chinese culture too.does > that mean they too beleive in pitru tarpanam etc.,? ------------------------------------- If your question is about why females do not do tarpanam / final rites etc, then I think the combined reading of the 2 appendices I provided along with part 12, gives the reply. >From the description of panchagni vidya (Chandogya upanishad) we know that the soul stays in the male body for 2 months and it is in man that it gets ready or 'synthesised' to be born. The moment it enters the womb, it is said it is born. Please read the details in appendix 1 for the justification that the soul goes back in the way it has entered - that is, through man it enters and through man it leaves to the other world. The other plausible justification is the connection of Y chromosome which goes un-changed down the generations. Only these 2 clues we have, one from texts and the other from modern science. These two make me think that continuity happpens only through male. Another reasoning is that if you look at upanishads like Aithareya and Brihadaranyaka, it is said that from male, the female is made. Aithareya says, that God Himself made man in His image , from one part of Himself. This first born created a female from himself. But since it is his child he could mate her for procreation and so he entered a bull and the female became his feamle companion and procreated and thus it started. Brihadaranyaka says that Prajapathi created the first female and through her procreated. After seeing the recent news from the science of cloning that a baby has been cloned from 2 fathers, I wonder whether it is possible to create a female from a male. Because the two upanishads I quoted testify such a possibility. If this is how the first births have happened, then there can be no doubt about why males only have the right to do final rites and tarpanam. It is our strong belief that this sanatana dharma which says so much about how to live and sustain dharma with much stronger rational and scientific basis can not have made this male connection without a strong basis. This is the ONLY area where preference to male is given. The purpose of marriage is 'vishesena vahati iti vivaha:' - that which gives special rights. One of them or one among the foremost is procreation. The purpose of procreation is to release the pithrus from the hell called 'pu'. This is what scriptures say. In Tamil too, the word 'vaazhkkai' is derived from 'vazhi' and explained as begetting children to continue the race. It is in this connection only, the childless ones and those who have no male issues used to adopt a male baby. But here comes a hitch. By adoption, the gothra changes , not the y chromosome. It used to be said, that though one has been given for adoption, while fixing marriages in his lieneage, his parental gothra also must be excluded. I have known of scholars who had been aware of this, but yielded to giving consent to marriages within the same gothra by-passing this stricture of exclusion of that gothra to which the fatehr or any pithru had belonged, only to see the result in future progeny, being born with defects. So it is high time, we construct the family tree atleast till 7 generations, to know that the gothra has continued in straight line. I mention 7 generations here, because texts say that when a person does tarpanam in all earnestness, he is said to be releasing 7 generations proir to him and 7 generations after him. In case of doing it excellently, 14 generations are releived. This shows that though 3 generations do have a direct bearing on a person, between 7 to 14 generations are in some way connected to a person by passing some genetic material. About Chinese system, i am not aware of it. But since sanatana dharma has been the sole dharma of the entire world in the very distant past, it could have stayed in some places in some ways. (this becoems the answer to your 2 nd question. ) If you are referring to the chinese system of determining the gender of babies based on the mother's age, i have this to say. This calendar is almost near perfect. The explanation and rationale for this exists in none other than Thirumathram of Thiru moolar, interpreted by Dr Jayam Kannan. Generally texts say that a female baby is conceived when mounted on the left side. I read a mail to this effect in one of the groups recently on Brahmacharyam. No one exactly knows what this means. But from the interpretation of some verses from Thirumoolar's, it is known that it is the female who actually determines the gender of the baby - not the male (hope no further harassment of women happens due to this). Only one of her ovearies produce a mature egg every month and this goes alternatingly, that is, at left side one month and at right side the next month. There are times too when the same ovary produces continuously for two months. This routine is almost fixed in all females. The fluid at left falloppian tube is such that it inhibits the movement of x sperms of the male, thereby making the chances of the y to ferilise the egg. Contrarily, the right falloppian tube secrets a fluid that inhibits y sperms, resulting in the movement of x sperms alone through it. This selection determines the gender - and has been encrypted in the above mentioned text. This makes it possible to say how the Chinese calandar always tallies. Here again, i am of the opinion that this knowledge has existed inly in Vedantic society and has spread to other places.You will be surprised to read in the last chapter of Brihadaranyaka upanishad, how even the semen can be retreived by the male in copulation, thereby avoiding pregnancy. Everything happens by the power of thought, slokas and mind. By such power, the people of yore got the male and female too. -------------------------------------------------------------------- > 2) Madam,if whole of universe is gods creation how is it only india > or indian think about vedas? when did all vedas,upanishads got concentrated > in india?or how is it all mahavishnu avatharas took place only in india > when his shristi is not limited to india only? > This doubt is very common doubt( pragna bharathi(RSS wing) > seminar answered it saying that indian is in center of globe so it answers > many ) Still i would like to know further . > > thanking you > > pranamams > krishnapriya > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please browse http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Suvarnabhumi.htm and all the articles in History column in that dot com www.atributetohinduism.com You will get a wealth of information on the division of land forms in those days (mentioned in jambhudweepa nirmana patalam in Bheeshma parvam, MB), with authentic information on what those areas are in today's world. A combined reading of this parvam from MB along with this dotcom will show that this land of ours was the basis for growth of Vedantic knowledge and people spread to all these places. The other palces, barring a few have lost this heritage and we fortunately are still into it, thanks to the importance given to unbroken lienage given by this vedantic society. The 6 month duration for a day or for night for devas and asuras tally with arctic and antartic circle. The mysterious passages I quoted earlier from Chandogya in the series, on vasus etc about sun rising in west or south or north can be alluded to this. A few info from this unitariness of the world in those days: The lake Baikal of Siberia is supposed to be lake Vaikhanas. Sage Yajna valkhya was supposed to have attended the court somewhere here. Lopamudra is even today the common name for females in Russia and this also happens to be sage Agasthya's wife! Many tamil scholars refuse to accept that Agasthya came from North. But this name connection shows that he had been to deep North. In MB it is said that the Northern land is a blessed land of seers. Again the vedic way of identifying oneself in sankalpa starting from macro level to micro level (from shwetha varaha kalpe onwards till this day, this place etc) is still followed in postal address in Russia, wherein the coutry's name is featured on top followed by the further divisions down the line till the door number and finally the person's name. We have left this practice found in sanklapa manthra, to follow in daily life. But they still have it.Which country or civilisation must have been central to all of these? Another info. The origin of river Nile was found out only with the help of a brahmin who interpreted it some purana. It is said to be Vayu purana. There is mention of this river and its place of origin in this Purana, it is said. This information is found in the autobiography/memoirs of John speake who discovered the origin and named it Lake Victoria. As per the information obtained from that brahmin, he came to a lake which the locals called Amara located near the Mountains of the Moon. The sanskrit of mountains of the moon is 'somagiri'. The lake identified in the puranas was lake Amara. The names in the local dialects tallied with sanskrit names. Speake re-named this lake Lake Victoria, which is what we all know it as today. Regards, jayasree SPONSORED LINKS Fund raising Beliefs Religion --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Oppiliappan" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Oppiliappan-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. 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