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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00090 Apr 2003

 
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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Dear Shri Swamin and other Bhagavathas,

As one reads this post, one would see that I have touched various 
topics instead of precisely sticking to one point. I apologise for my 
inability to do so. Kindly forgive me. Also, the usage "you" does not 
literally point to any particular person in the following post. It is 
just a "second person" usage. Kindly do not take anything personal. I 
question only the thoughts and opinions of people and not the people 
themselves. In the same way, when you reply back, I will not take 
anything personal(unless it is too obvious, in which case, I would 
stop replying:)). There are no emotions embedded in this mail. Just 
my meagre limited observations and learnings which might sound rude 
or whatever. Kindly do not get into analyzing my intent or my 
emotions. Try to get the gist of this post. If it is not worth it, of-
course you would dump it, so there is not any problem. Kindly do not 
break this mail into bits and try to reply. Kindly try to get 
the "wholesome" message. I know that reading this will not exactly 
express what I intend to communicate, but I am writing this to the 
best of my ability to achieve that! Also, this is a very long mail. 
Please proceed only if you have some time in leisure. Sorry if I have 
wasted any of your time.

Sarva Aparaadhaan Kshamasva

> The vast majority of Hindus are no longer concerned with caste
> or its duties and obligations since we all have modern careers in 
> big multi-dimensional cities and no loger live in villages.

I humbly request you to provide references to few statistics based on 
which you have made the above statements.

> So let's stop this pretence and paying of lip-service and as modern 
> Srivaishnavas relegate varna-ashrama dharma to the cultural museum 
> where it belongs.

I did not want to discuss the varnashrama dharma in detail, but this 
post did tempt me to:

A person born in the america calls himself american though of any 
origin(parental) and enjoys the previliges of this super power 
country. Why must he get this previlige just BECAUSE he is born in 
this country? What is so special in him that distinguishes from those 
who are born in underdeveloped countries? If you have the answer for 
this, then the same would be the answer for the question on Varna-
Dharmas. If you are not supposed to discriminate one by birth, then 
why are there boundaries in this world for countries? How many people 
call themselves as PATRIOTIC and are still against casteism in India. 
What makes one do something for the place where he is BORN? How is an 
Indian different from other country men? Why would we need visas to 
go to other countries? Why are we supporting Kashmir and are still 
fighting Pakistan in not letting it take away kashmir? When one is 
obsessed about their country and discriminates other country men, it 
is being treated as a pride and is called PATRIOTISM whilst when one 
obsesses his/her race, his is called a RACIST. You may call it 
Varnashrama Dharma or by different name, but it will exist in various 
forms world wide. It is because of the very nature of human beings. 
The Varnashrama Dharma was designed based on this very nature. I 
would like to invite those people for a personal conversation over e-
mail on this subject who wish to debate this. Irrelevance has nothing 
to do with the existence. Dinosaurs and their family do not exist. 
Why are we still discussing about it? It is the instance of the type 
called Dinosaurs that do not exist, that does not mean Dinosaurs are 
irrelevant or that they are meaning less in our life. Everything 
was/is for a reason. You call it socialism, capitalism, racism, 
imperialism, secularism or whatever, it does not matter. It will stay 
in one form or other. Rich and poor, white and black, intelligent and 
stupid, good-looking and ugly, tall and short - people are of 
different types and have likes and dislikes. If I don't like onion 
and do not eat and if one says I am discriminating that vegetable 
from the other vegetables, I have only my regrets to them. Before 
even discussing on Varnashrama Dharmam, one must first attain a level 
of spirituality and clarity of thought. We always talk based on our 
preconceived notions. How many of us are first ready to give up OUR 
notions and SEE-THROUGH things. We end up seeing what WE want to see, 
rather than what is AVAILABLE to see. Call it our limitation not that 
of the shruthi and smruthi. When Shri Ramanujar says in his Shri 
Bhasyam -> "Varnashrama Dharmanugraheetha Tad Upasana Sampat" we must 
first try to understand what it is. If Shri Ramanuja says something, 
he means it. Manavala mamunigal says -> "Nyanam ANUTTANAM ivai 
nandragave udayanaana guruvai adiandhakkal, naanilattheer thenaar 
kamalatthirumaamagal kozhunan thaane vaikundam tharum".[If one seeks 
refuge under the feet of an acharyan who has the knowledge AND the 
ANUSHTANAM then the refugee automatically will be lead to the 
moksha]. I request you all to look at the usage of ANUSHTANAM by 
swamy Maamunigal. If knowledge was all enough, he would have stopped 
with that. Why did he add anushtanam? We could say we are doing 
prapatti and we know the athma swaroopam and we see paramatma in 
everyone. Come'on! Let us come to reality. When will we reach that 
level? Just at the time when we hear about prapatti and its meaning? 
In that case, what do we do after prapatti? Can we change our mindset 
overnight and start seeing everything as bhagavath kainkaryam? 
Including the act of using a pesticide to kill the pests? This is 
when I suggest one MUST sit under the right acharyan and try to learn 
things rather than reading everthing by themselves via books and 
developing wrong notions. Books are for the writers for their own 
references. That is why we have the system of UPA-NI-SHAD(would 
suggest that the reader shall try finding out the meaning for the 
same). Did Shri Ramanujar write Shri Bhashyam for us to read? NO. 
This is a wrong notion. He wrote for HIS reference. Same with all 
other purvacharyas. But, the sampradayam is to learn all these from 
the appropriate authority. Swami Desikan claims that he did the 
kalakshepam of Shri Bhashyam around 80+ times(may be I am wrong in 
this number) in his lifetime. If books were to read and understand 
everything, why do we have the concept of kalakshepams? The 
sampradayam is to learn it from the authority and use the books only 
as a reference. If Brahmins are not supposed to touch a person 
of "lower birth", is it a limitation of the brahmin or the person of 
the "lower birth"? Talk about lower and higher births! Don't we say 
the dolphins are the smartest amongst all the fishes in the aquatic 
kingdom? Is this a discrimination? Let us go back to the history. 
Shri Ramanujar did unja vrutthi as per the varnashrama dharma and 
renounced as per it. So did our purvacharyas upto 700/800 AD(?). What 
happened after that(left to the reader to find this out)? A brahmanan 
though was declared to be born of a higher birth, has to lose his 
beauty(by chopping of the hair on the head and having shikhai) and 
his financial status(has to beg to eat). So, who was in good status? 
Who had more limitations? The higher birth in the SPIRITUAL/KNOWLEDGE 
sense got MISINTERPRETED as a higher birth in the financial terms. 
Holy caste became Forward caste. How did this happen? The service 
oriented caste was project as a slave caste. How did this happen? To 
serve by will is service while by order is slavery. Did anyone order 
the shudras to serve to brahmana at all? And whom did they serve? 
They served only the kshatriyas and the vaishyas. Devotees! 
Varnashrama dharma and its society back dates to time immemorial 
while its defeat is perceived only in the last 1000 years(?). If it 
were a failure how did it manage to survive for 100s of thousands of 
years? Whilst the brahmanan has to do all his duties and even if he 
stopped chanting the purushasuktham in the middle due to unavoidable 
reason, was supposed to go and stand in a river before the sun rises 
and has to do some prayacchittham, the other varnas enjoyed the 
freedom to many things and were well off with wealth(money and gold 
and ornaments), happiness(any number of wives and any drinks and 
anything that they want). FORWARD and BACKWARD, HIGHER and LOWER are 
perspectives. A Brahmana when touches a shudra, has to go and take 
bath. How was this misinterpreted as UNTOUCHABILITY. Did brahmanas 
say shudras should not touch them, or did shudras, out of respect 
avoid touching the brahmanas? Do not bring politics into the 
religion. What we are now is because of our own people who projected 
a wrong image of this entire system for whom the politics, the medias 
and the phenomenal growth of illiteracy favored. From the knowledge 
point of view, brahmanas maintained their knowledge. What is wrong? 
Do you expect America and Russia to share all their nuclear/defense 
secrets with every one in this world? Well, you can only argue for 
the heck of it:) If you cannot learn the secrets of the nuclear 
weapons and defence strategies of the NASA, you would keep quiet, 
whilst, if a brahmana tries to maintain the secret of brahman, you 
will criticize him to the fullest possible. When a person comes to 
know about these defence secrets is prosecuted for a possible misuse 
of the information, a person who was threatened to be punished by 
pouring heated lead in his ears for over-hearing the shruthi, is 
perceived with sympathy. Kindly note the usage of the word 
threatened! Though this was in manu smruthi, this NEVER happened as 
their is no historic references. But let me quote another historical 
event that has been mentioned in the Mahabharatha. There was a 
mistake that was collectively done by four people, each belonging to 
one varna. Guess what? The brahmana was given the most lethal 
punishment i.e he was executed while others were just imprisoned for 
some number of years. The reason being, as per the varnashrama 
dharma, a brahmana is supposed to be the most knowledgeable and when 
he does something wrong, gets the highest degree of punishment. These 
days, instead of Vanaprasta parents go to orphanages:) and bachelors 
go to hostels(for discipline) instead of gurukulam.

The reality is, in one form or other the Varnashrama Dharma will 
prevail. You can call a donkey, a monkey or a horse, but it still 
stays as a donkey. Call it a "developed vs underdeveloped
(countries)", a "secular vs monoreligious" or a "socialist vs 
capitalist" or a "patriot vs traitor" or a "brahmana vs shudra" 
whatever... The differences WILL prevail. So, whether one wants to 
follow it or not is upto the person. But, I humbly request that, DO 
NOT TALK WRONG ABOUT WHAT OUR SHRUTHI/SMRUTHI SAYS and PUT THE BLAME 
ON THEM and PROJECT A WRONG IMAGE OF OUR TRADITION. History repeats 
itself. Varnashrama dharma may seem defunct today. But what we fail 
to see is that - the SANKSRIT SCRIPTURE - MANU SMRUTHI(or whatever) 
is being seen as defunct, while, Varnashrama Dharma still prevails in 
some other form. Perceptions are not REALITY all the time:) They are 
DECEPTIONS many times.

Again, if you associate my ideas with myself, you might call me a 
fanatic and if you try to analyze me instead of my post, you would 
define me as a person who talks but never practises! But if you 
really are interested in knowing the reality and are ready to see the 
truth as is, I request you to kindly ANALYZE ONLY the contents of 
this post and then decide to accept it or not.

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jamataram Munim

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,
Lakshmi Narasimhan




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