Hare Krishna. I have been following this thread on the power of the Lord's Holy Names for sometimes. Sri Mohan Sagar has presented the Sri Vaishnava view, either wholly or partly, in terms of kalai opinions, in an accurate manner. However with all due respect to him, his view of the Gaudiya Vaishnava viewpoint has been simplisitic. Perhaps the fault does not lie with him, since this is a forum to discuss Sri Vaishnavism. I shall not go into the details of the Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta related to nama-tattva on this forum and end up being deemed irrelevant. However, I wish to only state the following: 1. Nama-tattva is a subject that fills volumes of Gaudiya Vaishnava literature and to summarise just one side to things, based on one's own reading of one statement, will not do justice. 2. There are different stages of nama japa and kirtana and the moods differ in terms of the spiritual maturity of the sadhaka in terms of kanistha (neophyte), madhyama (middle) and uttama (topmost). As such, the views of the Holy Names of the Lord are relative in this regard. 3. In the ultimate issue, albeit differences of semantics, the GV school also says that the recitation of the Lord's Names is not representative of any external means. It is done purely for His pleasure only. But for the conditioned souls who see things as a matter of sadhana and sadhya or means and end, the Name functions in that way. But in the ultimate issue, the Name is the means and end for in reciting It, only the Lord's pleasure is the purpose. The Nama in the ultimate issue while appearing to be an external sadhana for the conditioned soul, is ultimately the internal sadhya as well because in the liberated state, one is doing the same function of reciting the Names in a spontaneous manner in loving the Lord. In vaidhi bhakti, rounds are fixed. In raga bhakti or spontaneous devotion, the name is uttered in spontaneous joy in full realisation of Its none difference from the Lord Himself. The emphatic claim to The Name being the means does not exclude It from being the end and internally the Lord and the Lord's pleasure potency as well. Ultimately, it is the Lord's choice to grant salvation or love of Godhead. But on the basis of the Acharya's guarantee, one who properly does the sadhana with faith will come to the platform of understanding all these issues. So essentially, no one is saying that parrot-like chanting is a demand that the Lord will fulfil to give salvation or devotion. But, when one takes up the process with faith, then based on the Vaishnava's assurance, the Lord out of His love for His devotees' words, if He pleases, helps the sadhaka realise and progress to chanting the Names only for His pleasure. I am aware of certain differences between Visishtadvaita and Achintya-bedha-abedha in understanding the internal potency of the Lord vis-a-vis His Name, form, qualities, pastimes, etc. Let us remember that when Srila Prabhupada was ill, he told his disciples to pray to Lord Nrsimha that "My Dear Lord, IF YOU SO DESIRE, please help our spiritual master in executing his will to please You for his work is unfinished." So besides so much semantic wrangling, I think it is important to note that Nama tattva in both schools, is not a matter of just one slant and one strand but covers substantial literatures that are not exhaustive by any means. For further accurate information of the GV view, please read Srila Prabhupada's purports as well as books such as Hari-nama-chintamani, Sri-bhajana-rahasya, etc, by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura and other books by earlier acharyas. It's not much of a use speculating based on some personal understanding of just a few strands of quotations on a forum external to the sampradaya in focus here. I think it is best to represent one's sampradaya properly but one should not speak for another line in half-truth, without knowing the entire gamut of the issue from the side of the other. And especially speaking thus in an open forum meant only to thoroughly discuss one of the sampradayas would mean limited response with limited options for members of the other sampradayas in replying and explaining, as well as possible blurring of full reality by the overpowering collective views of those affiliated with the forum and its representative sampradaya. I would likewise urge those posting to keep discussions to the Sri Vaishnava line. If any views are sought of the GV position, please send postings to groups such as achintya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Please do not cross-post just to pit one against another and do comparative studies. This is not a comparative forum in a thoroughly neutral exhaustive sense. The comparative element is basically the discretion of the individual but he or she should get each sampradaya's views from the respective sampradaya adherents and figure things out for himself / herself. It should not be the business of sampradaya-based forums to critically discuss comparative issues in a forum which is not equally represented by adherents of the sampradaya whose views are being placed under scrutiny. There is no option for a well-represented counter voice. It is basically akin to heralding one's own superiority in one's own backyard based on one's own frameworks. It does not present anything accurately or neutrally or holistically. Hare Krishna ys r. jai simman jakarta __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam http://www.vedics.net Yahoo! 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