Dear Sri Varadarajan,I am not denying the existence of sorkam or narakam. This is how I interpreted re: swamis statement that jIvATma enjoys temporarily in sorgam / suffers in narakam. Even to be in sorka logam we need a body and then we are again subject to this whole karma process. Hence what i tried telling you is if we have accumulation of a lot of good karma (puNyam as stated) we have a chance to take birth as a Devata etc (which will be in sorga lokam ). Similarly it holds, if one has so much bad karma, one can be born as someone in nether world and undergo tortures there.
The essence is we have a body there too and hence we accumulate karma there too. So we dont exhaust the good and bad karma (i.e it doesnt become a zero) as you have queried. An accumulation of good and bad may lead to a better / worse life in a better / worse world. And I might be very well mistaken in my understanding. Even demi gods like Indra, Yama etc have a soul like the rest of us and also undergo the principles of karmA. karmA can be nullified only by perumAL alone (and by nothing / no one else) according to our religion. Ofcourse I dont know if perumAL gives liberation only if you take birth in the planet earth ... I really dont know about that
I interpreted so after i had discussions with other people on the same topic. I guess your understanding is that when we are in sorka lokam or naraka lokam we just exhaust our karma and dont accumulate new ones. If it is so, this seems contradictory saying that karma can be nullified by other means/demi gods than perumAL.
The topic definitely is a deep one. I request other members to clarify on this topic. Please do pardon me for any mistakes - I have explained the way i understood and would like to know the actual explanation.
Thanks, Harini
From: sumithra varadarajan <sumivaradan@xxxx> Reply-To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: [ramanuja] Treatment of Jeevathma after his encounters in Sorkam and NaragamDate: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Dear Harini,As per Adiyen's understanding, our pramanams say their is a "Sorkam" and "Narakam". Yema dharmarajan is incharge of "Narakam" and Indra is incharge of "Sorkam" and a Jeevathma temporarily "suffers" or "enjoys" in direct proportion to his Pavam and Punniayam. I heard the concept of " A Jeevathma, temporarily enjoying in Sorkam and once the tenure is over, the jeevathma will be pushed onto the world" from U.Ve.Vellukudi krishnan's swamy upanyasam yesterday. So a mere enjoyment as a state of Sorkam, i think, is not as per our Vishistadvaita school of thought as per our Emperumanar Darsanam. Again adiyen request the learned members of this group to throw some light on this and correct Adiyen if some viewpoint is wrong.Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, Varadarajan Harini Raghavan <harini_r@xxxx> wrote: srImathE rAmAnujayA namaha Namo NaaraayaNa A jIvAtma goes to sorgam actually means taking birth in a higher realm and narakam can be equated to lower realm. If we have a lot of positive karmA accumulated, then we have the capacity to be born as a deva etc. But the point to be noted is when we are born as a devata / lower being we will still be accumulating karma (could be bad or good based on our actions) We will be accumulating karmA whenever we take birth based on aur actions - this is an inevitable rule according to our religion. Only perumAL has the capacity (according to Sri Vaishnavism) to liberate us from this endless cycles of birth and death. So having punyam / papam only determines the way you are born. It has been *my* understanding that going to sorkam and narakam doesnt exactly mean exhausting our bad / good karma ... Its just that you get a higher (could be a devata)/lower form of life (as someone in nether world) depending on your karma and accordingly you undergo happiness (can be equated to sorkam) and suffering (can be equated to narakam). And the actions resulting during a birth, also adds karma. Hence it is good to understand the purpose of life and try to get out of this endless cycle. Learned members may please correct me here. Please pardon me for any mistakes.If someone could explain exactly what our elders meant by sorgam and narakamit will be more enlightening. Thanks. nArAyaNa nArAyaNa >Dear Bhagavatas, > >Adieyen has a basic doubt in the treatment of Jeevathma after his >encounters in Sorgam and Naragam. As per my understanding, a jeevathma >goes to Sorgam and enjoys the comforts there in direct proportion to the >"Punniyams" in his credit. Similarly he suffers in Naragam which is also>in direct proportion to the "Pavams" in his credit. Once this treatment is>over, he has a zero balance of "punniams" and "pavams" and he becomes >eligible for moksham, if he realises and practices the "Artha Panchakam".>But my doubt is where comes the re-birth of jeevathama again in this "leela>vibudhi" as he now has a zero balance of "Punniyams" and "Pavams" (They>have been spent or compensated in Sorgam or Naragam). Is it an oppurtunity>provided by the emperuman to realise HIM and MOKSHAM. > >I request the learned members of this group to clarify the same. > >Adiyen, > >Varadarajan Ramanuja Dasan. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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