You are here: SriPedia - Ramanuja - Archives - Oct 2003

Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00072 Oct 2003

 
Oct 2003 Indexes ( Date | Thread | Author )
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]


Dear Bhagawathas
If we look at the vedic pramana THADVISHNO:PARAMAM PADAM ...........
IT IS CLEAR THAT lORD sREEMANNARAYANA IS THE PARAMATHMA & SUPREME.
aLL the acharyas of different vedanthas conclude the supremacy of vedas&Lord 
sreemannarayana. Even narayanopanishad do concludes the same thing. 

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote :
>
>azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Vedas & Supremacy of Sriman Narayana
> From: "amshuman_k" <amshuman_k@xxxx>
> 2. Acharya Celebrations: Nov 1st, 2003 W-DC
> From: Pattangi <danp@xxxx>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:39:18 -0000
> From: "amshuman_k" <amshuman_k@xxxx>
>Subject: Re: Vedas & Supremacy of Sriman Narayana
>
>
>Dear Bhagavatas,
>Thank you for your replies. Let me try to address certain things and
>I mean no offence to our acharyas and esteemed members.
>
>1. Vedic texts & Sriram's post:
>Sriram beautifully summarized the central issue albeit with a minor
>mistake - that the vedas talk about a "nameless or formless" supreme
>being. Not necessarily and not always. That is a tangential issue
>which we can ignore. The central point is, from vedic texts, we
>cannot objectively examine the contents and conclude
>that "Vishnu/Narayana is the supreme". We need to append Vaishnava
>tantras, azhwar poems and other sectarian puranas to make that claim.
>As Sriram pointed out, if that is not the case, every Vedic scholar
> from Sayana to Bhatta bhaskara to Kapardi swami to Mahidhara would
>have reached the same conclusion. This is ignoring western
>indologists (accused of a hidden agenda?!).
>
>2. Scientists/Azhwar analogy:
>This is a weak analogy. Einstein's theory of relativity or
>photoelectricity may be 'complex' for 'lay persons', not intutively
>making sense or even worse contrary to common sense. However, the
>physicists are unanimous on what the theory is about, what it
>explains, and what are its limitations (if any). We cannot make an
>analogy of theory of relativity & Vedic texts and scientists &
>azhwars. Vedic scholars haven't come to a unanimous conclusion
>that 'Narayana is supreme'.
>
>3. Validity of itihasas & puranas:
>If we allow puranas as a supplementary source of pramANa, shaivas &
>shaktas would point out their respective sectarian puranas as
>pramANa. If we dubiously proclaim that Vaishnava purANas are sattvic
>and hence only they are to be counted as pramANa, we are in trouble
>again. Naradiya purana, a sattvic purana, at the very beginning
>asserts, "He who is Hari is same as Hara, Shiva. There is no
>difference between them". (At least shaiva puranas are consistent in
>that they proclaim Shiva as second to none and supreme :-) to Brahma,
>Vishnu, Indra and other devas). There are other references to Hari-
>Hara identity in 'sattvic' purANas which I didn't bother to catalogue.
>
>To re-iterate, 'Narayana is supreme' is a matter of subjective
>opinion, which is not necessarily wrong. However the claim
>that 'Narayana is supreme and this is attested in the Vedas' can be
>objectively evaluated by examining vedic text themselves.
>
>4. Observation of Indo-Iranian texts - Avesta:
>This is a side issue. The Avestan language is very similar to vedic
>sanskrit and the gathas could be translated from avestan persian to
>sanskrit and vice versa with few simple phonetic rules. Besides, a
>lot of vedic deities reappear in Avesta *including vishnu*. ( we have
>to keep in mind though, that daevas are the bad guys and ahuras are
>the good guys).
>
>ahura mazda - asura medhira=varuNa)
>mithra - mitra
>rashNu - viShNu
>verethraghna - vR^itrahan=indra
>sraosha - sharva=rudra
>vAyu/vAta- vAyu/vata
>ardvi sura anAhitA- sarasvati
>baga - bhaga (as in baghdad!)
>
>It is interesting to note how the Indo-Iranian religion evolved (in a
>different direction) compared to vedic religion. Varuna is the
>supreme God and Rashnu is a minor deity, and is the judge of souls
>seeking entrance into heaven. In Zoroastrian religion the souls of
>the dead must cross the Cinvat Bridge which links heaven and earth.
>That is where Rashnu guards and makes the soul wait three days, while
>he reviews the records in the book of life where good and bad deeds
>have been recorded.
>
>An indirect evidence that 'supremacy of Vishnu' is a later 'purANic
>evolution' and unattested by Vedic canon (or else, among Indo-
>Iranians, Rashnu would have been supreme - not Varuna).
>
>Regards,
>Kasturi Rangan .K
>
>{Moderator's note:
>The "subjectivity" of the assertion that "VishNu is the Supreme Being" is srI. 
>Anshuman's opinion only. That is not an authoritative opinion taught by our 
>AchAryAs -
>
>adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan}
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:58:13 -0500
> From: Pattangi <danp@xxxx>
>Subject: Acharya Celebrations: Nov 1st, 2003 W-DC
>
>
>Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha
>
>Acharya Celebrations: Nov 1st, 2003 W-DC
>Jeeyar Educational Trust USA, And Vedics Foundation,
>are blessed to announce the celebration of the thirunakshattirams of
>
>MudalAzhvars and Pillai Lokachar Swami
>Swami Sri Manavala Mamunigal (1371 - 1443)
>
>Sri Sri Sri Tridandi Sriman Narayana Ramanuja Chinna Jeeyar Swami's
>on November 1st 2003 at Sri. JETUSA W-DC Center
>
>Register for the conference. Click Here http://ramanuja.cc.uic.edu/
>View participant List
>
>Accomodations, local transportation, prasadams and other needs will be taken 
>care of by local Volunteers in W-DC.
>This celebration is organized with the following objectives in mind: 
>Kainkariyam, Kainkariyam & Kainraiyam, together with Other devotees
>Feel free to e-mail us with suggestions, questions Click Here
>
>http://ramanuja.cc.uic.edu/
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index ] [Thread Index ] [Author Index ]
Home Page
http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia
ramanuja-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To subscribe to the list